Men please answer honestly


#1

Ok, I have a question that would definitely become heated in a secular environment but I am hoping on a Catholic website men will be more comfortable anwering.

What do men really think about the way women carry on today? I mean by wearing provocative clothes, figthing to breast feed in public and getting mad at people who are against it. Being the ones to initate dates with men, using profanity, flirting (not innocently), being offended when men open doors and all the other stuff.

I have often been insituations were woman would do things in front of their husbands that I though was not nice and the man simply ignores it. For example, my uncles wife kept talking about her first husband, and then her second husband in front of him (he is her third husband). Personally, I found that was a put down to my uncle to have it in his face that she still though about them (ok, I know my uncle chose to be her third husband but that is beside the point). I think my uncle ignored it because he knew she wouldn’t stop and he had too much pride to admit his hurt.

Once a man told me when his girlfriend hits him, he laughs because he knows if he hits her back society would be totally against him. Is it possible it is not the physical pain that hurst the man but the emotional put down that would crush him?

Deep down, regardless of what society says, do men not want wifes, mothers and sisters that are respectable? Also, please list behaviours that feminist think woman should do but deep down men think are wrong.

The reason I ask is because as a woman I need to know it is OK to be old fashion. Since I can’t get the support from my female peers to be modest, can I please have some support from men

Thanks

CM


#2

I remember hearing this: “Men fall to the level women allow”.

My respect level for women who exhibit the behaviors you mention drops way down. Yes it is OK and desirable to have high standards, morals and respect. In fact I admire those qualities greatly. Woman are giving up their dignity left and right yet demanding respect. Does this make sense?

Take the high road and you will never be sorry.


#3

God Bless you!!

Some WEAK men want the secular kind of women you describe. They want that kind of women, until they hit 40 and are faced with a divorce.

Strong, Good men want a wife, a daughter, a friend, a good woman who doesn't dance on tables for tequila or let men take shots off her body.

Be traditional, respect yourself and don't succumb to the modern way of things, because all it can offer is shallow pleasure :)


#4

Well you are certainly kicking the feminist bucket here. I wonder if Germaine Greer frequents these forums. :smiley:

I can’t speak for every bloke on here, but I’m sure my thoughts align with quite a few. Generally speaking, all men want independent, free-thinking, strong, loving wives. The age of the submissive wife has long since passed and for the better of all I think. You shouldn’t see feminist as a dirty word, it has liberated you for the rights you now have today, i.e. fairer pay, right to vote, etc.

Provocative clothing is not indicative of the modern women, but more display of low self confidence and a need to feel sexually attractive. It’s a scream for attention, more than a scream for sex. Unfortunately men will see the latter. But I think a lot of women are beginning to see that you can dress attractive and smart, rather than sexual and slutty.

As for women initiating dates, intentions of interest, etc. It’s about bloody time! I can’t tell you how horrible it is to walk up to a group of nice looking sheilas with the intention of only talking to one, and then being rejected by ALL! Anyway, us blokes are hopeless at reading signals, so if you can make our job easier, by all means do so.

Being old fashioned isn’t mutually exclusive to being a modern women.


#5

As a guy, I’m revolted when women are really vulgar-nothing turns me off more. I don’t like it when guys are either, though.

I’m probably a bit different than alot of guys on here-I’d prefer an independant gal’ who is herself. If that means being a career lady, great. If that means staying at home, great.

Opening doors and stuff is just what a gentlemen does, and I’ve passed the point of caring is someone is offended by it. Doesn’t bother me in the least.

I’d like a girl who knows she can open her own door, but doesn’t care if someone opens it for her.

Submissive people bother me-I couldn’t be with anyone long term who was such.
Just my opinion.


#6

You're probably going to get many different answers here, because all men are different. Your post asks how "men" (in the collective sense) feel about old-fashioned women. This question is impossible to answer because different men will hold a wide range of opinions on this subject. Some men want women to be "old-fashioned" and won't settle for any other kind of woman. Other men dislike "old-fashioned" women and are looking for someone more modern.

In past threads, some women on this forum have complained that men on this forum are viewing women as a "puzzle" or "code" to be cracked, and that men mistakenly think that behaving in a certain way will draw the interest of any woman. These men are cautioned that all women are different, and that they must consider the personality of the individual woman before acting.

I would caution you that you may be falling into the same trap here, but from the opposite perspective -- the trap that all men will find certain behaviors to be right or wrong. No matter what you do, some men will like it and some men won't. Some men like independent, feminist women, while other men like traditionalist women. Some men are provoked by all women, no matter what they're wearing, while other men never find clothing to be provocative, no matter how immodest it is.


#7

CM,

Why would feeding your baby in public be vulgar and disgusting? It’s certainly more old-fashioned than feeding babies formula from plastic bottles, and more natural.

I realize that Americans are grossed out by bodily functions, but in many foreign countries, such as Germany, people still know that feeding babies is what breasts are for, and they wouldn’t bat an eyelash if a woman breastfed her baby, even outside in broad daylight.

There are also cultural differences going on. I was raised to believe that a woman breastfeeding her child is one of the most beautiful things in the world. I certainly don’t think it’s fair to lump women who do into the same category with women who are vulgar and immodest.

Gorger


#8

[quote="Shadark, post:4, topic:196967"]
Well you are certainly kicking the feminist bucket here. I wonder if Germaine Greer frequents these forums. :D

I can't speak for every bloke on here, but I'm sure my thoughts align with quite a few. Generally speaking, all men want independent, free-thinking, strong, loving wives. The age of the submissive wife has long since passed and for the better of all I think. You shouldn't see feminist as a dirty word, it has liberated you for the rights you now have today, i.e. fairer pay, right to vote, etc.

Provocative clothing is not indicative of the modern women, but more display of low self confidence and a need to feel sexually attractive. It's a scream for attention, more than a scream for sex. Unfortunately men will see the latter. But I think a lot of women are beginning to see that you can dress attractive and smart, rather than sexual and slutty.

As for women initiating dates, intentions of interest, etc. It's about bloody time! I can't tell you how horrible it is to walk up to a group of nice looking sheilas with the intention of only talking to one, and then being rejected by ALL! Anyway, us blokes are hopeless at reading signals, so if you can make our job easier, by all means do so.

Being old fashioned isn't mutually exclusive to being a modern women.

[/quote]

This is an awesome post. Thank you for standing up for women and not playing the blame game. I know for me as a woman, when I see other women debasing themselves and I see how many men treat women these days, I want to blame men for making women want to debase themselves ust to get some kind of affection. I have to catch myself though and change that thought. Funny enough, it wasn't me who came up with that train of thought. It was my husband. He told me how angry it makes him when when men applaud the debasement of the female form and it drives women to go further and further to gain the favor of men that God created them to seek.

To the OP: Read the books called "Wild At Heart" and "Captivating". It explores the nature of men and women from the way that God created them to be. It will show quite clearly that the situation we are in is neither men's nor women's faults directly, but how we've failed each other as a whole.

amazon.com/Captivating-Unveiling-Mystery-Womans-Soul/dp/1400202825/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1272818739&sr=8-1

amazon.com/Wild-Heart-Discovering-Secret-Mans/dp/1400202817/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1272818757&sr=1-1


#9

[quote="GorgerCracker, post:7, topic:196967"]
CM,

Why would feeding your baby in public be vulgar and disgusting? It's certainly more old-fashioned than feeding babies formula from plastic bottles, and more natural.

I realize that Americans are grossed out by bodily functions, but in many foreign countries, such as Germany, people still know that feeding babies is what breasts are for, and they wouldn't bat an eyelash if a woman breastfed her baby, even outside in broad daylight.

There are also cultural differences going on. I was raised to believe that a woman breastfeeding her child is one of the most beautiful things in the world. I certainly don't think it's fair to lump women who do into the same category with women who are vulgar and immodest.

Gorger

[/quote]

Thank you. I didn't want to derail, but was thinking the same thing. At the same time, I do believe this too can be done modestly...expect us to be covered, but please don't shove us in a closet!

And for the record, I agree with the idea that you can be liberated without being a "femi-nazi." I'm good with staying home with my kids, and having doors opened for me, but I also like being able to enjoy a hard lemonade while watching the 49ers play. :D


#10

[quote="Whitacre_Girl, post:8, topic:196967"]
This is an awesome post. Thank you for standing up for women and not playing the blame game. I know for me as a woman, when I see other women debasing themselves and I see how many men treat women these days, I want to blame men for making women want to debase themselves ust to get some kind of affection. I have to catch myself though and change that thought. Funny enough, it wasn't me who came up with that train of thought. It was my husband. He told me how angry it makes him when when men applaud the debasement of the female form and it drives women to go further and further to gain the favor of men that God created them to seek.

[/quote]

As a single woman, I have to fight for attention in the dating scene. And if looking hot and wearing sexy clothes gets it, so be it. Its a game, and I'm playing to win. I don't like it, but unless things change, it will continue. I don't want to end up single and surrounded by 100 cats, so you got to do what you have to get a man. I wish it wasn't this way. :(


#11

[quote="cmscms, post:1, topic:196967"]
What do men really think about the way women carry on today?

[/quote]

I mean by wearing provocative clothes,

I'm all for it.

figthing to breast feed in public

What's offensive about feeding a baby? Didn't your God intend on having mothers feed their babies from their breasts?

In Canada, breast feeding in public is quite common. America is quite uncommon in how they view breast feeding.

Being the ones to initate dates with men, using profanity,

Takes pressure of men and cursing has a time and a place.

flirting (not innocently), being offended when men open doors and all the other stuff.

Flirting has a time and a place and is generally harmless. I've not once in my entire life had a woman scold me for having held open a door....I'm in my mid 30's.

I have often been insituations were woman would do things in front of their husbands that I though was not nice and the man simply ignores it. For example, my uncles wife kept talking about her first husband, and then her second husband in front of him (he is her third husband). Personally, I found that was a put down to my uncle to have it in his face that she still though about them (ok, I know my uncle chose to be her third husband but that is beside the point). I think my uncle ignored it because he knew she wouldn't stop and he had too much pride to admit his hurt.

Your Uncle sounds like he doesn't have a fragile ego and he sounds like he's secure in both his relationship and his masculinity.

Once a man told me when his girlfriend hits him, he laughs because he knows if he hits her back society would be totally against him. Is it possible it is not the physical pain that hurst the man but the emotional put down that would crush him?

This man sounds like he's quite immature. Domestic violence is wrong and breads more violence.

Deep down, regardless of what society says, do men not want wifes, mothers and sisters that are respectable? Also, please list behaviours that feminist think woman should do but deep down men think are wrong.

I think we're wired to appreciate conduct in ' other ' women, that we would not like to see emulated by our sisters, mothers or other family members.

The reason I ask is because as a woman I need to know it is OK to be old fashion. Since I can't get the support from my female peers to be modest, can I please have some support from men

Absolutely. Men can appreciate a woman for what's on the inside and on the outside....and both.

CM


#12

Deep down? Yes. But with all of the cultural evils enticing us and piling up (all with deceptively intelligent justifications), you have to dig pretty deep.

Feminism helped some women and did a number on others.

Traditionally, if you were a woman, you were not really supposed to be a professional worker. It was deemed inappropriate. Housewives were the ideal, many women thrived and kicked butt in the role (it is a full time job).

With feminism, women that wanted to pursue work were granted that freedom. That’s a great thing; keeping a woman form pursuing her goal of opening a business or some other pursuit is wrong.

However, feminism did two other things:

1.With more and more women taking home pay, the demand for goods shot up. Combined with other inflationary pressures, prices went up. What does this mean? It means many women/spouses simply cannot afford to stay home and tend the shop/raise kids.

  1. Feminism also trotted out a mantra attacking and devaluing women that run the household and raise their kids. It was considered submissive. Men also helped perpetuate the myth that human worth is measured exclusively through money. If you don’t earn, you are deemed a loser or a victim. Sadly, many women bought this twisted philosophy and jumped into the workforce seeking fulfillment.

I run into these women everyday (they are in their 60s); most of them are unhappy and resent the way their personal lives turned out. A few have even told me they consciously regret not seeking out a stable husband and raising kids “the old fashioned way”.

This is going to sound sexist, but I think most women tend towards the nurture side and are “suited” for raising kids and managing the homefront. Even tomboys seem to naturally take to handling all of the day to day challenges of the household while simultaneously instilling values into children. Yes, we’re all flexible and can wear different hats, but it just seems to me to be a natural proclivity that women have over men.

I’m not advocating that women should be discouraged from entering the workforce either. Far from it. I just think they should take a more honest look at what they really want and disregard the self-hating hag philosophy that resides in the intellectual halls of academia and the cultural elite.

So yeah, it’s good that you’re a traditionalist.


#13

[quote="cmscms, post:1, topic:196967"]
What do men really think about the way women carry on today? I mean by wearing provocative clothes, figthing to breast feed in public and getting mad at people who are against it. Being the ones to initate dates with men, using profanity, flirting (not innocently), being offended when men open doors and all the other stuff.

[/quote]

I get bothered when women wear provocative clothing 1) because it only serves to tempt and weaken men and 2) because it degrades them as women. They're very beautiful but such clothing makes men simply lust after them rather than appreciate their beauty. I have no issues with breastfeeding in public but it's sad if people oppose it or mock it (not saying they do mock it, but I could see it happening). And as a man I'd appreciate if more women would take the initiative and ask us on dates rather than us having to ask them. Non-innocent flirting is bad, especially when Catholic women do it...you won't attract the right kind of guys and the ones you do attract will not appreciate you as woman, especially not as a Catholic woman trying to remain chaste. It really deeply angers me when women are used. As for being offended when doors are opened, I'd have to ask why; it's just basic chivalry.

I have often been insituations were woman would do things in front of their husbands that I though was not nice and the man simply ignores it.

Both parties in any relationship needs to respect the other. If not the situation has to be remedied. I wouldn't want to be with someone who doesn't respect me and vice-versa.

I think my uncle ignored it because he knew she wouldn't stop and he had too much pride to admit his hurt.

Maybe it's because I'm unconventional and more emotional than the average man but men need to learn to express emotion; you're not less of a man because of it :)

Once a man told me when his girlfriend hits him, he laughs because he knows if he hits her back society would be totally against him. Is it possible it is not the physical pain that hurst the man but the emotional put down that would crush him?

Not sure on the last sentence but I would say neither party should physically harm the other in any way. Not acceptable in my eyes.

Deep down, regardless of what society says, do men not want wifes, mothers and sisters that are respectable? Also, please list behaviours that feminist think woman should do but deep down men think are wrong.

I certainly want respectable women! I get hurt when I see women being used and want them to hold themselves to a higher standard of respectability.

The reason I ask is because as a woman I need to know it is OK to be old fashion.

As a Catholic man that's fine with me. You may not get as many men interested in you this way but the ones that will notice are the devout guys (who you want anyway).

Since I can't get the support from my female peers to be modest, can I please have some support from men

As a man somewhat interested in fashion I say it is certainly possible to be modest and fashionable. I'd argue against things like low-cut tops, overly tight pants, skirts that are too short, or clothes that are tight enough that we can see bra and panty lines. But if the clothes do not reveal too much skin, cleavage, and things and such, then it should be fine.

Oh, and as a man I LOVE IT when women wear shiny lipgloss, makes me want to kiss them :thumbsup:


#14

Thank you everyone for your answers. I asked for opinions and I got then so that is a good thing.

I don’t have time to respond to everyone so I will comment on a few things that stuck out.

As for breastfeeding, I do agree it can be done very modestly. I think I was asking more about men’s possesiveness. How they like to be with their wives but they don’t want another man looking at her. And also, I think I was referring more to the type of woman who do it immodestly and expect the whole world to cater to their babies schedule. not sure if I am saying this right. But more to the effect that rather than respecting there is a time and place for everything, mom’s think their babies schedule dictates everything.

And I am all for the right to vote and woman working. I think it is a much greater compliment to a man for a woman to marry him because she chooses to as opposed to ‘I need a roof over my head so OK, I will tie the know’. I just think we need a system where mom’s can afford to allow their careers to suffer in order to raise their kids. Because you spend more years in the workforce than you do raising kids.

Nonetheless, when I try to be more modest and old fashion and men mock me, it doesn’t hurt as much as when my woman friends don’t support me

CM


#15

This question is too general. Some is good and some is not good

Women have every right to wear clothing that is flattering. Showing too much is a turn off. It seems like they are degrading themselves and perhaps have serious problems. Why don’t they just wear tee shirts that say “Emotionally Unstable”?

I have never seen women fighting to breast feed. I cannot comment.

Initiating a date is fine with me. It removes some of the doubt as to whether or not they are interested and makes them seem confident.

Profanity is not good for men or women.

Flirting runs a wide range. I have been grabbed - that’s a big red flag! Compliments are great!

I have never met a woman who was offended by having doors opened or by receiving flowers. I had one tell me once that the door thing was not necessary. I still opened them, but did not go out of my way. I have no problem either way.

You should definitely behave in ways that you are comfortable. Do not try to be who you are not.


#16

It seems to me that you are seeing the problem facing all women. We are expected to dress immodestly, and we are teased and mocked for not doing so. Kudos to you for not giving in, but also know that not all women are as strong as you. Don’t judge them when you see them desperatly seeking approval from men who are shallow and objectify women. Pray for them. They are hurting inside whether they know it or not, because they likely haven’t had a good male role model or a man (even their fathers) who can appreciate them for who they are, rather than what they wear.


#17

Breast feeding is not a matter of “a time and a place,” but a matter of modest method. A culture of life embraces the needs of infants. :slight_smile:


#18

[quote="CatofAlexandria, post:17, topic:196967"]
Breast feeding is not a matter of "a time and a place," but a matter of modest method. A culture of life embraces the needs of infants. :)

[/quote]

for what it's worth, I'm super uncomfortable with women doing so openly and in public. I don't think it's appropriate at all.

When I've spoken to other people about this, they seem to hate me! People are radically passionate about this issue.


#19

I don’t want to see a bare breast, no matter the circumstances! Just like I don’t want to see young women wearing clothes cut down to there! :eek: Feed your baby, but use modesty. I understand a fussy baby can make it difficult at times.

One of my friends was breastfeeding, and she would whip it out, when I suggested a blnket to cover herself, she got mad.


#20

[quote="Rascalking, post:18, topic:196967"]
for what it's worth, I'm super uncomfortable with women doing so openly and in public. I don't think it's appropriate at all.

[/quote]

To be frank, that's your problem, not theirs.

When I've spoken to other people about this, they seem to hate me! People are radically passionate about this issue

People do tend to get radically passionate about sustaining the life of a child with the best source of nutrition...breast milk.


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