Merely Grape Juice


#1

“But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep.” I Corinthians 11:28-30

When I was an evangelical I always found it interesting that the pastor would go out of his way to emphasize that the cups are filled with simple grape juice and nothing more. Then he would cite the above verse and caution us to avoid taking communion “unworthily”. That seems like fairly severe consequences for misusing something that is merely grape juice.


#2

and that is why you are Catholic now…


#3

That’s probably where the road started…


#4

You kinda ended the thread…:thumbsup:


#5

Well, there’s nothing more to say. Protestants contradict themselves.


#6

Precisely!! :yup:


#7

What I want to know is how they know when they are talking about wine as wine or wine as grape juice? Why do they not accept that wine means wine.


#8

I have never taken Communion at the FC Methodist Church which I attend but plan on doing so at Passover.
I am unsure whether they use juice or wine.
The minister has warned us all repeatedly that if we take Communion without first repenting and confessing our sins at the altar that we shall be “eating and drinking our own damnation”.
If that ain’t enough to make you pray an honest prayer before taking it I don’t know what is!
WP


#9

Which begs the question…

if you are OSAS

then you obviously can NOT drink your own damnation…

…so what’s the consequence for taking communion unworthily?

Early death?

(Free ticket to heaven?)

A slap on the wrist when you die for unrelated reasons later?

I think that would be considered the correct answer, but I don’t think that’s what Paul meant…

I have definitely heard it preached in OSAS that there will be less glory for those who sinned (in this way or others) but it was never something that bothered me. We would talk after the sermon about who cared if there was less glory - better to serve in heaven than reign in hell.

A good and proper sentiment, that, but basically proves that this is NOT what Paul meant.

As Fr. Larry would say “Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm…”

Something for OSAS to think about.


#10

Methodists do not believe in OSAS. That is a Calvinist teaching. Methodists are Arminian.


#11

I don’t know…I would suppose extremely bad luck and many miseries in your life. I do NOT wish to drink nor eat my own damnation if I can prevent it so I shall be praying for forgiveness and fasting before Communion. I do not desire damnation.
WP


#12

I fail to see how the presence of alcohol would make the examination anymore or less meaningful.

What point are you trying to make ?


#13

The point is that the historical Church understands Communion to be the Body and Blood of Christ. This understanding would give some creedence to the concept outlined in I Corinthians 11 where partaking of Christ’s Body and Blood is a serious thing.

If it is just grape juice distributed as a memorial with no value other than a symbolic one than it has no where near the gravity of a literal understanding. How could there be such severe implications attached to mere symbolism? Seems incongruous to me.


#14

The OP didn’t mention alcohol. I think you are misunderstanding the OP.

The issue is, how can you drink damnation upon yourself if it is merely grape juice? That is, if it is merely a remembrance, how can you drink damnation upon yourself?


#15

I know, though thanks for pointing it out as others may not know there is a difference. I was raised Baptist. Strong Calvinistic leanings, though not TRUE Calvinism. My point wasn’t directed at all of Protestantism, just OSAS - which I was raised to believe very strongly.


#16

That means “Once Saved, Always Saved”?
Yes, Methodists are Arminian and do not believe nor preach that idea.
WP


#17

Yes, OSAS is an abbreviation for “Once Saved, Always Saved”.

Yes, Methodists are Arminian and do not believe nor preach that idea.
WP

I know because I have Methodist family members and friends.


#18

Why don’ t they accept all the other stuff the Bible says which supports the Catholic Church?


#19

In Relation, What I want to also ask is why they don’t care that the Apostle John was under the distinct impression that the “Seven Angels who present the prayers of the Saints” doctrine from Tobit 12:15 is commandment from god?

Tobit 12:13 validates Prayers for the dead too…

12:12. When thou didst pray with tears, and didst bury the dead, and didst leave thy dinner, and hide the dead by day in thy house, and bury them by night, I offered thy prayer to the Lord.

Is it because that would mean they would all have join either the Orthodox or Catholic church and that Sola Scriptura, in terms of “Hebrew canon from later than 90AD only” would be staked once and for all.


#20

That’s Revelation, right?


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