MERGED: Solemnity of St Joseph transferred - no let up in Lent?/Solemnity starts Vespers Friday?

As the Solemnity of St Joseph falls on a Saturday, its celebration here is transferred to the Sunday.

So it’s a Solemnity of the Universal Church, but not a Solemnity here in Scotland.

Can I still celebrate as if it was a solemnity, i.e. take a break from Lenten observance? Or would that be cheating?

Whenever there is a feast day in lent everyone in my family pigs out…We had angel food cake last night as a celebration of St. Patrick’s day. :smiley:

Wow, are you sure? The Sundays of Lent outrank Solemnities, so I do not understand* how the celebration may be translated? It may, however, be translated to another date outside of Lent, except where 19 March is observed as a Holy Day of Obligation (which I presume is the case in Glasgow?)

Are you sure it is not just that the obligation to assist at Mass is removed, but the (non-obligatory) celebration of the solemnity remains on Saturday?

(* Of course I understand that anything may happen with the approval of the Apostolic See – I’m just reading the documents at their face value)

tee
armchair liturgical calendar nerd :nerd:

This not really a practical question, as I’ve no intentions of taking advantage of it, but I want to make sure I know the answer.

According to canon law, abstinence is not required when a solemnity falls on a Friday. Thus, on the Solemnity of St. Joseph last year - a Lenten Friday - meat was permitted. Similarly, meat will be permitted next Friday, which will be the Solemnity of the Annunciation.

Now Solemnities, unlike Feasts or other lesser celebrations, Liturgically begin with the first vespers on the night preceding the date of observance. Thus, the Solemnity of St. Joseph begins with first vespers tonight, and the Solemnity of the Annunciation begins next Thursday night.

As far as I understand it then, the law of abstinence should not apply following first vespers tonight. However, I want to make sure that I understand this correctly. I know that in canon law a day is considered a period of 24 hours beginning at midnight, so it’s clear that at midnight tonight the Solemnity would be “in full force.” However, I have not seen any official document indicating when a Solemnity is officially regarded as beginning. There are some important questions surrounding it, too. For example, how is the solemnity reckoned for those who do not take part in a Liturgical celebration of Vespers or Mass?

However, because the Solemnity of St. Joseph occurs during Lent, the Lenten Sundays outrank it. Now, this scenario repeats itself in the United States in December. When December 8th falls on a Sunday, the Solemnity is translated to December 9th because the Advent Sundays outrank everything else. When the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe falls on a Sunday (December 12th, as was the case this past year), the USCCB gave parishes the option of celebrating either on December 11th or December 13th. In the case of the Annunciation, when that Solemnity falls during Holy Week, it is moved to the Easter season.

I didn’t intend my post to be a response to the OP’s question; it was actually a new question which a moderator merged into this thread. Sorry for any confusion, and - oh! - still looking for insightson my question. :slight_smile:

And they often happen [illicitly of course] without that approval. :frowning:

The Feast for St.Joseph will also get moved to Monday the 20 when the 19 is on a Sunday of Lent. It is the same for the Feast of the Annunciation. (of course then it wouild be Monday the 26) These feasts will alsobe moved if they land in Holy Week or Easter Week.

I remember a year with a early Easter where we had St. Joseph Day the Saturday before Holy Week (maybe March 15 ) and The Feast of the Annunciation came the week after Easter Week.

We had this discussion about when St. Joseph Day starts after Mass today. Our priest’s opinion was that it started this evening so there didn’t have to be fasting.

Could anyone confirm that meat is allowed tonight-after vespers?

Thanks

I think you must surely be mistaken. A cursory Google search indicates:
[LIST=“i”]
*]The Solemnity of St Joseph is not retained as a Holy Day of Obligation in Scotland. and
*]Retains its place on the calendar, this year: Saturday 19 March 2011.
eg This one from the Scottish Catholic Education Service
[/LIST]

Even if St Joseph is the particular patron of your parish, city, diocese, or what have you, the Sunday of Lent precedes it. :twocents: I do not believe there would be anything wrong with remembering St Joseph’s patronage during Sunday liturgies, thereby “celebrating” him with “scare quotes” and all, but liturgically it will remain the II Sunday of Lent.

:twocents: You may break your Lenten fast on the Solemnity of St Joseph (19 March). You may likewise break it on any Sunday of Lent (which Sundays themselves rank as Solemnities). :twocents:

tee

If you live inside the territory of that diocese (either permanently or temporaly) the rules of that diocese oblige you.

I doubt that in the diocese of Glasgow the Lent is observed in the original way (fast and abstinence every weekday). One can eat meat and not fast any way.

I am not sure, but I think that if the feast was transferred in one diocese than the proper mass and office for Lent’s weekday is to be celebrated/recited in Saturday

We’re observing the Solemnity today on its regular date, and in a very special way-- our Bishop is saying a special Mass at OUR CHURCH today! Our Choir is singing some gorgeous songs for Mass, and I can’t wait!

Actually, it’s an observance of both St. Joseph’s Day and a “delayed” St. Patrick’s celebration, in honor of our Parish’s patron. Plus, our pastor had his birthday yesterday so it’s a combined celebration-- complete with corned beef and cabbage for everyone after Mass, yum! Plus, the choir is singing some Irish folk songs just for fun-- I’m singing Danny Boy and playing my own accompaniment on guitar (my dad’s favorite song ever). Topping that off, today is our pastor’s “Feast Day”… Fr. Josef. :smiley:

(Side note… The Rectory has a little garden in the back, so I gave Father some homegrown baby tomato plants for his special days. How apropos, green foliage for St. Patrick and red fruit in season for St. Joseph, and he loves gardening-- and Roma tomatoes which happen to be an Italian favorite! :whackadoo:)

I know I am (i) late to this party (the answer is now moot) and (ii) not authoritative in any case, but count me among those who believe: Yes, the faithful were bound to abstinence for the entirety of Friday 18 March 2011.

:twocents:
tee

You are right - the solemnity is still today, but not a holy day of obligation. Problem solved :thumbsup:

THREAD DRIFT

There was a story, several years back, of a little Irish nun who somehow found herself in an Italian community. Each year they ignored St Patrick in their preparation for St Joseph’s Day.

When the little Irish nun asked why they gave all the attention to St Joseph she was told that St Joseph was much more important. The Virgin Mary married him.

The little Irish nun retorted: “She wouldn’t have if she had met St Patrick first.”

:rotfl:

tee

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