Merged threads: Queen of Heaven/Is Mary's queenship Biblical?


#1

Isn’t Mary’s title the “Queen of Heaven” going a bit too far? Isn’t it making her higher than she should be? That’s what it sounds like.


#2

No.

No.

Based on…?


#3

Well, we didn’t think it up, God did. Revelation Chapter 12 depicts Mary in heaven wearing a crown.

Remember that in ancient Hebrew culture, the mother of the king was considered a queen. Jesus is the King, and Mary is His mother, so according to the rules of ancient Hebrew society she holds the place of queen.


#4

How highly do you think Mary should be honored, and why?


#5

How high should she be???
Full of Grace, that’s what the angel said. FULL, no space for more Grace.
All generations will call her blessed.


#6

See 1 Kings 2:19

[FONT=Georgia]So Bathsheba went to King Solomon, to speak to him on behalf of Adonijah. And the king rose to meet her, and bowed down to her; then he sat on his throne, and had a seat brought for the king’s mother; and she sat on his right.

i think this was the start of the practice. You will note thereafter whenever there is a new king of Judah they tellus who his mother is. Also note that they do not mention the mothers of the kings of Israel.[/FONT]


#7

Jesus is King; Mary is Queen by virtue of being mother of the King.

Having a ‘queen regnant’ or a queen ruling ‘in her own right’ is something we have become accustomed to in ‘modern times’.

But in good old England (the land from which the majority of us have ‘inherited’ not only our law --think Magna Charta-- but also our language, our traditions, our literature, our heritage) the idea of a woman RULING as queen was so repugnant back as ‘short’ a time ago as the 12th century AD that a long drawn out civil WAR was fought because the claimant Matilda was ‘unacceptable’ to the majority of her subjects. Many years later it was her SON who succeeded to the throne which she had never held (it having been taken and held more or less by her cousin Stephen).

Queen Elizabeth I (in the 16th century) had 45 years of rule under fairly prosperous times (financially speaking) to accustom her subjects to ‘a woman’ ruler, and it wasn’t easy. Queen Victoria, in the 19th century, had a husband by the end of her 2nd year of her reign and a formidable army of (male) counselors. She likewise had a long (more than 60 year) reign in a prosperous time.

But at the time the Old Testament (and new) were being written, women did NOT rule ‘of themselves’. Hatshepshut of Egypt was an anomaly. We KNOW what happened to Cleopatra (Julius Caesar, Marc Antony). A ‘queen’ was NOT the ‘wife of a king’, a ‘queen’ was understood to be the MOTHER of a king. I believe the Hebrew term is “gebbirah”.

For Mary to be Queen of Heaven is thus Scripturally MANDATED. Far from being a ‘man-made’ title or a concept of her being an ‘equal ruler’, it represents the fulfilment of the Scriptural concept of king and kingdom.


#8

please help me understand this proposition sir…hehehe


#9

If Jesus is your King, then Mary is your Queen…as in the Queen Mother.

Doesn’t get much simpler than that.

DustinsDad


#10

Mary is seen in Revelation 12 as being crowned,
“in” Heaven and as giving birth to
The King of Kings who would
rule all nations with an iron rod…
…Jesus Christ.

A King can only be born of a Queen.
Who is The King of Heaven?
What would that make His mother?
The Queen.


#11

Mary is seen in Revelation 12 as being crowned,
“in” Heaven and as giving birth to
The King of Kings who would
rule all nations with an iron rod…
…Jesus Christ.

A King can only be born of a Queen.
Who is The King of Heaven?
What would that make His mother?
The Queen.


#12

Might I suggest Hail Holy Queen by Scott Hahn.
This is a topic I would love to go over with you but it does involve quite a bit of scripture study. I am game if you are.


#13

That is IF this woman is Mary. This is an assumption. Might I suggest:

“And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:” (Revelation 12:1, KJV)

This is not an actual woman, but a symbolic representation of Israel, pictured in the OT as the wife of God (Is. 54:5,6; Jer. 3:6–8; 31:32; Ezek. 16:32; Hos. 2:16). Three other symbolic women appear in Revelation: 1) Jezebel, who represents paganism (2:20); 2) the scarlet woman (17:3–6), symbolizing the apostate church; and 3) the wife of the Lamb (19:7), symbolizing the true church. That this woman does not represent the church is clear from the context.

…clothed with the sun … moon under her feet … twelve stars. Cf. Gen. 37:9–11. Being clothed with the sun speaks of the glory, dignity, and exalted status of Israel, the people of promise who will be saved and given a kingdom. The picture of the moon under her feet possibly describes God’s covenant relationship with Israel, since new moons were associated with worship (1 Chr. 23:31; 2 Chr. 2:4; 8:13; Ezra 3:5; Ps. 81:3). The 12 stars represent the 12 tribes of Israel.

MacArthur, John Jr: The MacArthur Study Bible. electronic ed. Nashville : Word Pub., 1997, c1997, S. Re 12:1


#14

There is very little comentary on the book of revelation in the ECF. The comentary that does exist puts several things in the place of the woman. One of them is the Great Mother of God.
I will post later the reasoning for this.


#15

God is infinite and eternal and has no mother.


#16

Jesus had a mother. Therefore, you must believe that Jesus was not God, right?


#17

Christmas hasn’t been over yet; perhaps, you have heard this verse over the holiday?

And it came about that Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. And she cried out with a loud voice, and said, “Blessed among women are you, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And how has it happened to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?” Luke 1:41-43

Virgin Mary is mother of Jesus and Jesus is God. This is true, but by no mean this implies that Mother Mary exists before God.

The Word became flesh like us. He needed a family. He lived just like the rest of us. He needs a mother, and she is the Blessed Virgin Mary.


#18

catholic.com/thisrock/1998/9812fea2.asp

Probably the clearest example of the queen mother’s role is that of Bathsheba, wife of David and mother of Solomon. Scholars have noted the excellence of Bathsheba’s position in the kingdom once she became queen mother during Solomon’s rule. Compare the humble attitude of Bathsheba as spouse of King David (1 Kgs. 1:16–17, 31) with her majestic dignity as mother of the next king, Solomon (1 Kgs. 2:19–20). As spouse of the king, Bathsheba bows with her face to the ground and does obeisance to her husband, David, upon entering his royal chamber. In striking contrast, after her son Solomon assumed the throne and she became queen mother, Bathsheba receives a glorious reception upon meeting with her royal son:

“So Bathsheba went to King Solomon, to speak to him on behalf of Adonijah. And the king rose to meet her, and bowed down to her; then he sat on his throne and had a seat brought for the king’s mother; and she sat on his right. Then she said, ‘I have one small request to make of you; do not refuse me.’ And the king said to her, ‘Make your request, my mother; for I will not refuse you’” (1 Kgs. 2:19–20).

This account reveals the sovereign prerogatives of the queen mother. Note how the king rises and bows as she enters. Bathsheba’s seat at the king’s right hand has the greatest significance. In the Bible, the right hand is the place of ultimate honor. This is seen in particular in the messianic Psalm 110 (“Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool”). In fact, many New Testament passages refer to the right-hand imagery of Psalm 110 to show Christ’s divinity and his reign with the Father over the whole universe (e.g., Hebrews 1:13). Thus, the queen mother sitting at the king’s right hand symbolizes her sharing in the king’s royal authority and illustrates how she holds the most important position in the kingdom, second only to the king.

This passage regarding Bathsheba also shows how the queen mother served as an advocate for the people, carrying petitions to the king. In 1 Kings 2:17, Adonijah asks Bathsheba to take a petition for him to King Solomon. He says to her: “Pray ask King Solomon—he will not refuse you—to give me Abishag the Shunammite as my wife” (1 Kgs. 2:17). It is clear that Adonijah recognizes the queen mother’s position of influence over the king, so he confidently turns to Bathsheba as an intercessor for his request.


#19

Several things are involved here.

Simply stated, Jesus, because He is the Messiah is a king of Israel from the line of David.

The Davidic kings all had their mothers as their queens and not their wives as western monarchs do. That office is called the “Giberah” in Hebrew and one of its functions was that they made intercession for the poor and needy who otherwise would not have such before the king.

Because of who Jesus is, Mary is also Queen Mother, fulfilling that same role even from the very beginning of Our Lord’s ministry in John 2:5.

As for Revelation 12, as with many other verses and passages in the Bible they can and do have multiple meanings and fulfillments, and that is one of them. Instead of an either/or interpretation the more accurate one is a both/and. IOW, there are essentially three main interpretations that I have seen of that passage, and I see no reason to reject any of them because they all apply.

The idea that Mary can be called the Mother of God is not wrong because simple God-given common sense, (when it is not twisted by some messed up modern agenda) can plainly see that it is not errant nor blasphemous to call her that since Mary bore the Son of God and He actually miraculously received His humanity from her. To say that she is the Mother of God does not now, nor has it ever in any way even implied that she was divine. People who argue against it are simply engaging in polemic anti-Catholic rhetoric.


#20

2 Tim 4:8 - Paul says that there is laid up for him the crown of righteousness. The saints are crowned in heaven, and Mary is the greatest saint of all. (unless you argue that heaven is communistic, with everybody the same, contrary to the Bible)

James 1:12 - those who endure will receive the crown of life which God has promised. Mary has received the crown of life by bringing eternal life to the world. (unless you argue that Mary was a mere coincidence, and not a requirement for God’s plan of salvation, contrary to the Bible and common sense)

hehehe

scripturecatholic.com/blessed_virgin_mary.html


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