Messianic Judaism or "Jews for Jesus"

Hello everyone. I was wondering how one could argue against Messianic Judaism which is also known as “Jews for Jesus” in some sects I believe. I don’t know a whole lot about them but from what I understand, they retain the laws of the Old Covenant while still embracing the New Covenant as well. Here are a couple of neutral links where you can learn about their beliefs:

religioustolerance.org/mess_jud.htm

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Judaism

religionfacts.com/christianity/ministries/jews_for_jesus.htm

God bless,
Holly

What are you wanting to argue against them? Messianic Jews aren’t like protestants, seeking to distinguish themselves from the Catholic church and causing schism. They are Jews who have accepted Christ as the messiah and have moved one step closer to the church. I’m not sure I could argue against that.

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I had a neighbor who considers herself to be a “Completed Jew”.

Sometime in her 20’s, she found Christ and converted to the Catholic faith.

She is a great source of knowledge though concerning the Old Testament as I would go to her with questions on things I did not understand.:thumbsup:

When my mother died at home after a long illness, she came over and bathed her while reciting Jewish prayers over her ( it was a truly beautiful experience). Then we prayed the Rosary together.

She never has forgotten her Jewish roots and is a great reminder to me that Jesus Himself was a Jew. My Christian faith is stronger because, partly through her, I have a better understanding of the Hebrew bible. Now if only I could pronounce some of those names:rolleyes:

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There is a woman, I think she used to be a CAF apologist, name of Rosalind Moss. She was a Jew who became Catholic and now, I understand, has become a nun.

I have heard Rosalind Ross on EWTN many times. A truly Holy woman:thumbsup:

Hi Holly. Can you give us a clearer idea what you are looking for? I know many Jews are offended by Messianic Judaism (e.g. the name is misleading) but I take it you are talking about objections from a Christian perspective.

There’s an idea known as “syncretism”, in which religions are fused together in practice. The people of Japan do this heavily, in which they’ll visit Shinto temples in order to say, mourn the dead or bless a child but have a Buddhist funeral. Very few Japanese are solely either one, and it could be likened to Roman Catholics lighting Orthodox prayer candles while crossing themselves right to left. That is fine as they do not conflict beliefs.

The less separated from the Catholic Church you go, the more certain branches of denominations will seem Catholic in their practices and worship because of influence. Some Lutheran churches will have altar rails, candles, ad orientem worship and intricate vestments. Same goes for the Anglicans, who will sometimes call their services “Mass” if they’re on the Anglo-Catholic side of the spectrum complete with incense, veneration of the saints and Our Blessed Mother, Vespers and many things that would give it the impression that it was a Catholic parish holding very traditional, Tridentine Mass-like, services frequently. That, too is fine. No Catholic belief is being impugned or denied by these practices.

What puts Messianic Judaism on the side of massive error is that it combines two beliefs that cannot fundamentally coexist together - Judaism, which rests its faith on the Old Covenant of Moses, and Christianity, because the two have a completely different way of worshiping that clashes and fights.

The main tenet of Judaism is the Shema, based on the Hebrew verb “to hear”, and is found in Deuteronomy 6:4. “Shema Israel, Adonai eloheinu, adonai echad.” “Hear, O Israel, The Lord is our God and our God is one.” This confirms the idea of the Oneness of God that the Jewish religion has.

Now, let’s look at Matthew 11:27, which plainly states that “no one knows the Father except the Son”, which blatantly describes the need Christianity has for the second person of the Trinity. Acts 2:38 adds a third person to that concept. With three persons already revealed to us in the New Testament under the auspices of Our Lord - Father, Son and Holy Spirit, you already have the Oneness idea and the Judaism part of quote, “Messianic Judaism”, unquote, completely refuted. As such, the religion makes no sense whatsoever, save for some practices they do like calling the name of Jesus “Yeshua”, from the original Aramaic/Hebrew, because some Pentecostal groups do that a lot.

That’s why Messianic Judaism makes no sense.

Well, I think I am wanting to know how to convince them that the Old Covenant has been fulfilled in the New Covenant and therefore we do not follow all of the laws of the Old Covenant such as the dietary restrictions and clothing restrictions.

among the problems with the Messianic Jewish groups is that they were founded by Protestant Evangelicals, who like many things they do, took an idea and ran with it. Among the first “Rabbis” of the movement were secular Jews who had become Evangelicals and re-interpreted Judaism in the light of Evangelical Protestantism. None have any extensive Jewish education, so they simply mimic Jewish liturgical practices to one extent of the other sometimes with no understanding of them. It is basically Evangelical Protestantism with a Jewish veneer.

As for the Jews for Jesus, when I lived in a neighborhood that was heavily Jewish they would do door to door campaigns and target Jewish households, preaching hell if you rejected Jesus, even among the homes of those who were survivors of Nazi death camps. Sadly the tactics turned many who may have been able to hear the Gospel away.

I dont believe there is any sin in living the Old Covenant regulations. Do they believe that the NEED for salvation purposes? If so, there is a misunderstanding.

If however, they chose to live it due to tradition, I see no problem with that. I have seen some who identify themselves are Hebrew Catholic wearing the yarmulke. I see it as their respecting their Hebrew background and tradition. :slight_smile:

(Sort of like the whole idea of women veiling themselves. They dont have to, but they choose to)

Thanks for that expounded explanation. I didnt know this :slight_smile:

I am a Roman Catholic with a Jewish heritage, of the tribe of Judah.

These groups you mention believe in proselytizing Jews and often include making demands on Gentile Christians to observe the Mosaic Law. Both practices are rejected by the Catholic Church and Judaism.

While I retain many Jewish customs myself, it is only due to the fact that I was born with them. The Catholic Church does not require a person of any ethnicity or race to reject their cultural diversity and assimilate to become something else. And my Jewish friends, including a rabbi, consider me as Jewish as they are. My language and my heritage are just one of the many found within the Roman Catholic Church, the place I as a Jew call “home.” In this home you find Irish Catholics and African Catholics and Mexican Catholics and even Jewish (or Hebrew) Catholics like myself. We consider ourselves one in Christ despite our culture differences.

Jews don’t believe that observing the Law “saves” a person. So when Gentiles demand observing the Law as a requisite to Christian salvation, they speak against the Law. Abraham, both Jews and Christians testify, was made right with God by faith. He was given no law to follow. No law “saved” him, and the promises given to him for his offspring were guaranteed before one letter of the Law came into existence. The Law came afterwards, once his offspring became a nation, as part of that people’s constitution. Those of other nations do not follow the constitution of a nation not their own. To insist a non-Jew follows the customs of a Jew to be saved is to promise something even Jews don’t believe will come from their observance of Torah.

For more information on the Catholic Church’s view of Jews, and especially on questions regarding them and the New Covenant, see usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/liturgical-resources/lent/questions-answers-catholic-jewish-relations.cfm.

Ask them where all the messianic Jews were hiding for two thousand years. Also ask them why they are using a group of books (bible) which were distributed, preserved and studied by Orthodox Christians instead of their own gospels.

That’s what I ask the ultra messianic, the one who says Sunday worship is pagan, the one who refers to the New testament but doesn’t call it scripture or consider it authoritative, the one who says we still need to eat kosher and be circumcised.

There are Messianic who simply have more of a Hebrew emphasis and practice some of the old law without forcing it on any one else, but I can’t help but think they make the same mistake that Paul chides the Galatians for. If righteousness could be attained by the law, Christ died for nothing.

This is the second thread I have read on Jews for Jesus, and I still don’t get the objections. Outside of their not being Catholic, why are they any more objectionable than any other Protestant sect. They have a portion of Truth. The Catholic Church has the Fullness of Truth. I wish for them what I wish for everyone to know the Fullness of Truth.

That said, why should the Catholic Church care any more about Jews for Jesus trying to convert Jews than it does any other religion trying to convert people to their faith. Where is the outcry about Methodists or Evangelicals or fill in the blank religion.

Anyway, reading their website you see that they are closer to the Truths of Faith than a practicing Jew would be, so why all the disdain for them?

Here is their Statement of Faith right off their website:

We believe that the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are divinely inspired, verbally and completely inerrant in the original writings and of supreme and final authority in all matters of faith and life.

We recognize the value of traditional Jewish literature, but only where it is supported by or conformable to the Word of God. We regard it as in no way binding upon life or faith.

We believe in one sovereign God, existing in three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit, perfect in holiness, infinite in wisdom, unbounded in power and measureless in love; that God is the source of all creation and that through the immediate exercise of His power all things came into being.

We believe that God the Father is the author of eternal salvation, having loved the world and given His Son for its redemption.

We believe that Jesus the Messiah was eternally pre-existent and is co-equal with God the Father; that He took on Himself the nature of man through the virgin birth so that He possesses both divine and human natures.

We believe in His sinless life and perfect obedience to the Law; in His atoning death, burial, bodily resurrection, ascension into heaven, high-priestly intercession and His personal return in power and glory.

We believe that the Holy Spirit is co-equal and co-eternal with the Father and the Son; that He was active in the creation of all things and continues to be so in providence; that He convicts the world of sin, righteousness and judgment, and that He regenerates, sanctifies, baptizes, indwells, seals, illumines, guides and bestows His gifts upon all believers.

We believe that God created man in His image; that because of the disobedience of our first parents at the Garden of Eden they lost their innocence and both they and their descendants, separated from God, suffer physical and spiritual death and that all human beings, with the exception of Jesus the Messiah, are sinners by nature and practice.

We believe that Jesus the Messiah died for our sins, according to the Scriptures, as a representative and substitutionary sacrifice; that all who believe in Him are justified, not by any works of righteousness they have done, but by His perfect righteousness and atoning blood and that there is no other name under heaven by which we must be saved.

We believe that Israel exists as a covenant people through whom God continues to accomplish His purposes and that the Church is an elect people in accordance with the New Covenant, comprising both Jews and Gentiles who acknowledge Jesus as Messiah and Redeemer.

We believe that Jesus the Messiah will return personally in order to consummate the prophesied purposes concerning His kingdom.

We believe in the bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, the everlasting blessedness of the saved and the everlasting conscious punishment of the lost.

Hi Carla!!

I’m not sure if you know or not, but we are asked not to bump threads older than a year. Could be that you didnt even realize it’s old.

If this is something yo want to discuss, please feel free to start a new thread. :slight_smile:

Exactly.

Well, traditional Judaism actually looks at it a little bit differently. Abraham did follow a divine law or code of justice, even though it might not have been identical in every respect to the full Torah given later to his descendants, and God testifies that He chose him and his seed after him - in part - due to this.

Genesis 18:19: "For I have known him, to the end that he may command his children and his household after him, that they may keep the way of the LORD,** to do righteousness and justice**; to the end that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which He hath spoken of him.’ "

And Genesis ch. 26 3 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these lands, and I will establish the oath which I swore unto Abraham thy father; 4 and I will multiply thy seed as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these lands; and by thy seed shall all the nations of the earth bless themselves; 5 **because **that Abraham hearkened to My voice, and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.’

Sorry, when I read this thread I didn’t look at the date of all the previous posts. Didn’t mean to perpetuate an old thread that should be killed.

nope, a Majority of its members are Jews , they keep the mosaics law , Judaic traditions , etc hardly a mascarade as is often claimed.

^^This is true, Moses. In some ways the movement did start out in the way you seem to be thinking of it, but it’s not just Baptist or Pentecostal theology with a thin veneer of Judaism laid over top, and in truth it never really was, glib superficial dismissals aside.

Asking about Messianic Jews here is generally like going to CARM to ask about Catholicism: not a reliable source of first hand insight and understanding.

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