Methodist neighbor say's this about Cellabacy and Married Priests


#1

[FONT=Arial]It will become more common. One reason for the married priests is that they are being actively recruited to fill a clergy shortage. The shortage is due to the fact that the celibacy vow is simply a hard sell, and they aren’t getting enough young men into the seminaries. They’re going to finally have to admit the entire celibacy thing was a mistake, and let them marry so they’ll quit fagging off the kids.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial]The whole not-allowing-marriage thing was started simply to prevent male heirs from inheriting the wealth of the church. They had to dig up some theological premise after the fact. That would be a posteriori, since Catholics love their Latin so much.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial]This was because, for centuries, they DID allow priests to marry. And there’s always the bastard step-children of the popes, to make a truly valid case against priestly marriage.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial]Certainly there is no Biblical case to be made for celibate priesthood. The Judeo-Christian tradition was always to bear offspring, and the Levitical priesthood continues to this day. The Apostle Paul was anti-marriage, but it’s easy to take some of his writing out of context, for it was written at a time when first-century Christians were expecting Christ to return in their lifetime, and they were not concerned with future generations. Personally, I think he was gay.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial]And what about the whole papal succession thing? Mathematically, someone has to bear children to keep that going…[/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial]Of course, opening the priesthood to women would double the pool of available labor, and women have much lower statistics on child molesting.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial]The Catholic church must either allow priests to marry, or allow women priests, or else this trend of converted Anglican married priests will just explode. The traditional priesthood will continue to shrink unless one or all of these changes take place.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial]That should keep you going for a while. Let me know what number your meter pegs out on![/FONT]


#2

Nope. Not gonna happen. Christ promised that He would be with the Church until the end, and that the gates of Hell would not prevail.

The Church doesn’t need to give in to mans desires for married priests or women priests.

The priesthood was corrupted because Satan couldn’t figure out another way in, so he had non believers join the priesthood to corrupt it.

Christ will make good come out of that evil.

This doesn’t even make the meter jiggle. Try again.


#3

Anglicans are jumping ship faster than you can shake a stick, and many are coming to the Catholic Church as they have no choice unless they want to sink in that ship. I dont understand his position, or the fact that he thinks he has a say in how the Catholic Church does anything.

Women can NEVER be priests in the Catholic Church.


#4

Celebacy has never been a mistake, and niether would eliminating the entirely celebate priesthood. It’s a matter of discipline and what is most germaine for the care of the flock at the time. I would personally support a system like the eastern orthodox have wherein a priest could remain married IF they were married prior to ordination. I left the quote at the end to show the utter lack of christian charity your friend seems to have

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[FONT=Arial]The whole not-allowing-marriage thing was started simply to prevent male heirs from inheriting the wealth of the church. They had to dig up some theological premise after the fact. That would be a posteriori, since Catholics love their Latin so much.[/FONT]

First, your friend needs a lesson in latin and logic… a posteriori is used ENTIRELY incorrectly in this context. Second, this quote shows the anti-catholic bias your friend has (and, again, lack of christian charity)

[FONT=Arial]The Catholic church must either allow priests to marry, or allow women priests, or else this trend of converted Anglican married priests will just explode. The traditional priesthood will continue to shrink unless one or all of these changes take place.[/FONT]

The converted anglican priests are just as validly ordained and just as traditional a priesthood as any other ordination. we should be HAPPY for their return home. As to the other two options, I already stated my position on married priesthood and we know (dogmatically) that women can NEVER be ordained.


#5

[FONT=Arial]It will become more common. One reason for the married priests is that they are being actively recruited to fill a clergy shortage.

What’s your source for this claim?

The shortage is due to the fact that the celibacy vow is simply a hard sell, and they aren’t getting enough young men into the seminaries.

The life of virtue has always been a “hard sell”. I question whether the celibacy rule by itself can be blamed for this.

They’re going to finally have to admit the entire celibacy thing was a mistake, and let them marry so they’ll quit fagging off the kids.

Do you claim that no other institution has a problem with child molesters - only the Catholic Church? If not, then celibacy isn’t the cause of that problem and letting priests marry won’t make it go away, Also how do you account for married molesters?
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[FONT=Arial]The whole not-allowing-marriage thing was started simply to prevent male heirs from inheriting the wealth of the church.

*Where is your source for this claim? What evidence do you have? *

They had to dig up some theological premise after the fact. That would be a posteriori, since Catholics love their Latin so much.

*Cheap shot. *
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[FONT=Arial]This was because, for centuries, they DID allow priests to marry.

What’s your point?

And there’s always the bastard step-children of the popes, to make a truly valid case against priestly marriage.[/FONT]

*The sins of individuals prove nothing about the validity of the rule they sinned against. Do you condemn the civil law because there have been corrupt police or judges?

  • [FONT=Arial]Certainly there is no Biblical case to be made for celibate priesthood.

*There is no Biblical case to be made for the use of electricity, or of the Internet. *

The Judeo-Christian tradition was always to bear offspring, and the Levitical priesthood continues to this day.

*What does the Jewish priesthood have to do with this issue? *

The Apostle Paul was anti-marriage,

*What makes you think that? Because he advised those who wished to devote themselves to God that marriage might be a distraction? For that matter he said “he who gives his virgin in marriage does well”. He never said that marriage was a bad thing. *

but it’s easy to take some of his writing out of context,

Oh yes.
(I snipped a bit here)

Personally, I think he was gay.

What? Do you have any evidence at all to justify this, or is it just another cheap shot?

[/FONT][FONT=Arial]And what about the whole papal succession thing? Mathematically, someone has to bear children to keep that going…

If celibacy was required of all Catholics, this would be a valid point. As it is, just another cheap shot.
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[FONT=Arial]Of course, opening the priesthood to women would double the pool of available labor,

*And allowing men to give birth would double the number of potential mothers.
Not gonna happen.
*
and women have much lower statistics on child molesting.

Some molesters are married men. Shall we oppose marriage on that ground?
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[FONT=Arial]The Catholic church must either allow priests to marry, or allow women priests, or else this trend of converted Anglican married priests will just explode.

Bald assertions prove nothing.

The traditional priesthood will continue to shrink unless one or all of these changes take place.

Bald assertions prove nothing.
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[FONT=Arial]That should keep you going for a while. Let me know what number your meter pegs out on![/FONT]


#6

Is there a question here?


#7

No…just wanted some feedback… I can’t believe this guy!


#8

Your Methodist neighbor is an ignoramus. And probably a good view of the general Methodist mind-set as against the Holy Catholic Church.


#9

Yeah, because it’s working so well for the Methodists. :rolleyes:

They’ll ordain anybody who can pass their theology exam, but they’ve still got their own shortage of clergy.

I suspect the reason is that the idea of becoming a member of clergy is not presented to children at a young enough age.

In our culture, it seems as though it’s seen as a second choice - if you can’t make it through med school or law school, maybe you’d consider being a minister or a priest, instead - but it’s not presented to kids as a first choice, or as something that smart, successful, normal people would want to spend their lives on.


#10

Well, I know of quite a few older (50ish) fellows who have been widowed for example who would step up to the plate in a heartbeat.

… I think the Church has a wonderfull resource there.


#11

The priesthood is not something “sold” to people. It is something men are called to by God.

The only people who should become priests are those willing to sacrifice everything necessary to serve God and the Church–if that involves celibacy, they will gladly embrace it. Likewise, men who would rather do something else rather than offer the Holy Sacrifice should not become priests anyway (even if that something else is marriage).


#12

I appreciate all the feedback.

Thanks Guys!!!


#13

Well, with people who get their theology and history off the back of a cracker jack box… what do you expect?

He’s not exactly intellectual.


#14

So, celibacy has finally proven to be a mistake, eh? Gee, that only took 2,000 years. :slight_smile:

The call to the priesthood comes from God. When he is ready, he will bless us with more priests.

Hope this helps. :tiphat:


#15

Dying Denominations in Red

  1. The Catholic Church, 69,135,254 members, reporting an increase of 1.94 percent.
  2. The Southern Baptist Convention, 16,270,315 members, reporting a increase of .02 percent.
  3. The United Methodist Church, 8,075,010 members, reporting a decrease of 1.36 percent.
  4. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 5,690,672 members, reporting an increase of 1.63 percent.
  5. The Church of God in Christ, 5,499,875 members, no increase or decrease reported.
  6. National Baptist Convention, USA, Inc., 5,000,000 members, no increase or decrease reported.
  7. Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, 4,850,776, reporting a decrease of 1.62 percent.
  8. National Baptist Convention of America, 3,500,000, no increase or decrease reported.
  9. Presbyterian Church (USA), 3,098,842 members, reporting a decrease of 2.84 percent.
  10. Assemblies of God, 2,830,861 members, reporting an increase of 1.86 percent.
  11. African Methodist Episcopal Church, 2,500,000 members, no increase or decrease reported.
  12. National Missionary Baptist Convention of America, 2,500,000 members, no increase or decrease reported.
  13. Progressive National Baptist Convention, Inc., 2,500,000 members, no increase or decrease reported.
  14. The Lutheran Church ? Missouri Synod (LCMS), 2,440,864, reporting a decrease or .93 percent.
  15. Episcopal Church, 2,247,819, reporting a decrease of 1.59 percent.

Source: wfn.org/2007/03/msg00069.html


#16

Is this a correct statement? Personally, I’ve found the Methodist to be more ecumenical regarding their Catholic brothers then pretty much any other religion.

Don’t make me sic Zooey on you!!!


#17

I think the trend toward 2 - 3 children households is the biggest hindrance to the priesthood. When parents had 8-10 kids, they knew they were going to have grandchildren.

Now with just a couple of kids, they don’t encourage the priesthood among their children because then they won’t have grandchildren. It’s sad.


#18

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This is based on what?
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#19

Thankfully for us all, your views are not representative of the general mind-set of the Catholic Church.


#20

I know quite a few Methodists, including a pastor who has a practicing Catholic wife. I have never experienced anti-Catholicism from Methodists. Your neighbor is not completely wrong. Celibacy for priests is a discpline in the Latin rite of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Catholic Churches allow a man who is married to be ordained as a priest, and the Latin rite did at one time as well. Since it is a discpline, not a dogma, it could be changed in the future. As Catholics, we need to respect the discipline, but it is possible that it may not always be practiced in the future. However, women will never be allowed to be priests; end of subject, on that matter.


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