Mich. Moore accurate and acadimic

In the past few years Mr. Moore has come out with a few movies (Ferhinhiet 9/11, Sicko) and I was thinking about seeing them. But, I would like to know first if they are acadimicly sound or if they are just bashings? Thanks and God bless.

Bashing and baised and not at all fair. Michael Moore knows how to shake the cage to his own benifet…I used to think he just had an agenda…now I know he does …$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I’ve seen only two of his movies: Bowling For Columbine and Fahrenheit 9/11. I think, the first was ok, but after seeing the second I realized: Michael Moore is a big, fat white lier, who’s smart enough to make big money off of people’s political divisions and hate. The movie was soooo unprofessional, one sided and even flat out deceitful (and I don’t particularly like George Bush and certainly have not supported the war on Iraq).

They are biased and not at all accurate. In Bowling For Columbine, Moore confronted Charleton Heston who was suffering from Alzheimers. That is just plain nasty.

I can’t stand Moore.

I watched Farenheit 9/11. I think it should be seen. Moore makes a lot of sound points, but he stretches some truths to serve a political end, which is a real shame. It detracts from the important points he raises. Go and see it, watch with an open mind and see what you think. Don’t take it all as truth, check into his claims.

Pure unadulterated fiction posing as fact. :mad: But what do expect from the the left. The have never met a fact they liked. :rolleyes:

in general Michael Moore’s research is about as academic and reliable as Oliver Stone’s. In other words, he takes real-life events and uses them as a framework for a fictionalized documentary, emphasis on the fiction. Whereever facts get in the way of his agenda he ignores them or distorts them.

I would encourage you to actually find sources proving that his claims are unsound.

I personally havent seen anything he has done other than bowling for columbine, which I found to be quite amazing.

Here are just a few “unsound claims” that you can verify with only 20 minutes of research…

**1 - **Both the title & Moore’s announcement that on that day, “Two boys went bowling at six in the morning”, is false.

Police determined that the two killers ditched bowling class on the day of the murders.

2 - Banks "handing out guns"
Moore’s portrayal of a firearms drive-through is completely staged. Moore buys a CD & answers 4473 questions, then after being handed a shotgun, asks “Don’t you think it’s a little dangerous handing out guns in a bank?

Not a bad question, but Moore knew full well that customers who get a “free” gun for putting at least $1,000 in the bank (more than twice the cash needed) don’t actually get the gun for 6-weeks. Moore had to stage being handed a gun immediately to be able to put that in his film.

Besides, not only did he never bother to show the banker’s answer, he failed to ask if the bank has EVER been robbed by a depositor. Instead, he implied that the bank is handing out guns to any character that walks in off the street.

It’s far easier to anonymously dump a few hundred dollars on a black-market gun.

3 - Blame defense contractors building weapons next door
Moore attempts to tie the nutcases in Colorado to defense contractors, specifically Lockheed, even though Lockheed doesn’t make weapons at that plant, but rather, weather & communication satellites.

The Sun (Australia)

4 - Blaming the US "Culture of Death"
Moore shows a B-52 memorial at the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs, & intones: “The plaque underneath it proudly proclaims that this plane killed Vietnamese people on Christmas Eve 1972.”

In fact, the plaque on the B-52 at the AFA is not as Moore describes it, but actually says: "B-52D Stratofortress. ’Diamond Lil.’ Dedicated to the men and women of the Strategic Air Command who flew and maintained the B-52D throughout its 26-year history in the command. Aircraft 55-083, with over 15,000 flying hours, is one of two B-52Ds credited with a confirmed MIG kill during the Vietnam Conflict Flying out of U-Tapao Royal Thai Naval Airfield in southern Thailand, the crew of ’Diamond Lil’ shot down a MIG northeast of Hanoi during ’Linebacker II’ action on Christmas Eve, 1972."1


5 - Blame the NRA
Moore bashes the NRA for being insensitive by holding its convention in Denver two weeks after the Columbine murders.
Nevermind that the NRA convention had been scheduled many years in advance, that Mayor Webb had eagerly solicited the NRA convention for Denver, or that the NRA drastically reduced its four-day convention.

The Truth about Bowling

6 - Standing on a dead 6-year-old girl
Moore blames the state of Michigan for the death of Kayla Rowland, the 6-year-old who was fatally shot in school by a male classmate. Claiming that the killer’s mother, Tamarla Owens, commuted to work in a shopping mall 70 hours a week, & still couldn’t pay her rent, she was forced to move in with her brother, where her unsupervised son found a handgun, brought it to school, & killed Kayla Rowland.

Actually, Owens earned $1,250 a month from one job (almost entirely tax-free), at least the minimum wage from her 2nd job, & received food stamps & medical care. Her rent was $300 a month. That is easily enough to pay the rent.

While Moore tells the audience that Ms. Owens & her son were living with Owens’s brother, he neglects to mention that their home was a crack house, or that the stolen gun was received by the brother from one of his customers, in exchange for drugs.

“No one knew why the little boy wanted to shoot the little girl,” says Moore.

Actually, the killer was the class bully; said that he hated everyone at school; had been suspended for stabbing a child with a pencil; and, subsequent to the shooting, stabbed another child with a knife.

Dave Kopel on NRO

Moore’s so-called “documentaries” are simply video versions of supermarket tabloids.

In Michael Moore’s defense here is what he had to say to his detractors in an interview with Tavis Smiley;

Tavis: Oh, that “Fahrenheit” movie made a lot of people upset on the right.

Moore: Yeah, well, it made them upset because I told the truth. (Laughter.) I came out very early on and said, “I think we’re being led to war for fictitious reasons.” What was the crime in that? And it turned out to be right. So, before that I made a movie, “Bowling for Columbine,” and I said, “I think these school shootings are a bad idea. (Laughter.) Maybe we should address that.”

Before that, I made a movie about my town of Flint, Michigan - 30,000 people losing their jobs. I didn’t think that was a good idea. (Laughs.) So I made a movie about that. What is the crime in any of these things I’ve done? It’s really odd that the far right has gotten so jacked about me. Can you explain this to me? I just really - is it the ball cap? I stopped wearing the ball cap. (Laughter.) I don’t know. What is it?

Tavis: To you point - the answer is no, I can’t explain that. But that said, do you take any of this stuff personally?

Moore: No, I don’t, really. Especially I realize that far right, they’ve created a fictional character that they need to hate, and he happens to be called Michael Moore, but it’s not really me. They don’t know the real me; they don’t know that I went to the seminary to be a priest or that I’m an Eagle Scout or that I’m very much in love with the people of this country and what this country stands for.

And the way that they try to manipulate the truth about me is it’s like they really must want to make sure that people don’t listen to what I’m saying. And yet with every film, the audience has only grown, and I think that’s because people know that I am going to come out there and speak the truth. I’m going to give you the facts, I’m going to show you what the news isn’t showing you, and I’m going to be forthright about my opinion.

Now, my opinion - I could be right or wrong. I think I’m right; that’s my opinion. But I might not be right. They may be right, but at least let’s have that debate and discussion and on this issue with healthcare, I’ve made this as a nonpartisan film. I’m really hoping that Republicans and conservatives - some of them, at least - will say, “We can find some common ground here, because we’re all affected by this. We all need to do something about it.”

pbs.org/kcet/tavissmiley/archive/200706/20070628_moore.htmlHere is the rest of the Transcript

“Accurate and academic” don’t sell very many tickets.

Mr. Moore is openly and unapologetically biased. His films are intentionally meant to make a point and sway opinion, and he sees no need to be fair to any viewpoints that don’t match his.

Sicko, I liked that movie, but not for its accuracy or academic value. It was fun to watch, but only if you understand that it’s biased on purpose, like the rest of his movies.

The first half of the movie is a list of horror stories from the HMO system. He cherry picked the worst of the worst of a For Profit bureaucracy. It was real dramatic.

The second half of the movie was farce, with Moore himself playing up the wonders of socialized medicine in Canada, England, France… and Cuba… in all the mock seriousness he was able to muster.

‘It’s all free and they live longer than we do’, seems to be his message. Ignore what’s good from our system, and ignore the worst of the socialized systems, and you will want Cuba’s system for sure… except that he looks like he’s having so much fun with the movie.

The entire timeline of Roger & Me is totally false. Yes, the events that he says happened did in fact happen. Just, not in the order he presents them.

IN Fahrenheit 9/11, he takes only the sound bites from interviews that he wants, and edits them together in order to make it prove whatever point he wants to prove. Some of his interviewees were so upset at how he twisted their words that they made their own counter-movie (the name of which escapes me at the moment, my apologies).

It’s a shame that he can’t make factual and accurate movies, because I agree with his causes. School shootings are terrible; jobs shouldn’t be shipped overseas to avoid paying people decent wages; national healthcare isn’t a bad idea, etc. I just wish that he made his points validly.

Sam, the Neon Orange Knight

Well, here’s one “counter film” :slight_smile:


It should also be pointed out that he claimed he did not ever meet with the chairman of G.M. in the movie Roger & Me, but in fact he did have a meeting. He admitted it. The movie is a sham and a fabrication.

People gullible enough to believe Michael Moore really need to dig a little deeper into facts. He fabricates “his thruths” regardless of reality.

First of all MIchael Moore is not a trained Journalist. So he has no professional obligation to be fair and balanced like a trained investigative reporter. Secondly at least he is bringing this issues to the forefront of america’s dialectic. Whats more important what Britney Spears or Lindsdey Lohan is up to or the state of our national healthcare. Thirdly, whats important is his motivations. He openly said in the same interview that he wouldnt mind if kids wanted to pirate and copy his movies as long as his message is getting out to the public.

I don’t really care for Mr Moore’s work, I think his movies are mostly bashing. But I am interested in seeing Sicko, as I believe that medical care in the US is trash.

Heh, not what I had in mind, but it’s a good one, nonetheless. Were I feeling less charitable, I’d call it a perfect behind-the-scenes look at his filming process.

Journalistic training isn’t a requirement for being truthful. He’s not being “unfair,” he’s being a total liar.

Secondly at least he is bringing this issues to the forefront of america’s dialectic. Whats more important what Britney Spears or Lindsdey Lohan is up to or the state of our national healthcare.

While I’m glad that we get people talking about these issues, I think that we would all be better served if he gave us actual facts in his movies. Although, I can appreciate the irony of Farhenheit 9/11, and his accusations of misdirection/cover-ups leveled at the Bush administration.

Thirdly, whats important is his motivations. He openly said in the same interview that he wouldnt mind if kids wanted to pirate and copy his movies as long as his message is getting out to the public.

Whether he has good intentions is rather beside the point. In fact, I don’t think that kinds should be seeing his message at all. Better to go elsewhere and get the real story.

Sam, the Neon Orange Knight

This is highly entertaining!

I love how nearly every critic of Michael Moore on this thread has made a hysterically funny spelling error, including the OP.

I wouldn’t argue that MM’s films are academically accurate, but he does cause one to think about issues of social justice.

Good times! :slight_smile:

Social Justice is one thing, but pushing an agenda by blatantly falsifying facts is intrinsically evil. Good cannot come from evil.

Read your post again.

Tee-hee. :smiley:

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