Michael Voris & 'Church Militant' on Purgatory


#121

The former practice of attaching a certain number of days to an indulgence did not mean the Church would give you that number of days “off” of your time in Purgatory. The number of days referred to the graces you would merit if you performed penance for a given number of days.

For example, an indulgence of 300 days meant that the punishment due to your sin would be lessened by the graces you would have received for performing penance for 300 days.

It was a common misconception that a “300 days’ indulgence” meant that you would get out of Purgatory 300 days earlier. To avoid that misconception, the Church stopped attaching a specific number of days to indulgences and now refers to them as partial or plenary.


#122

I’ve watched a video with Mr. Voris and I was immediately put off by his tone. It was neither professional or journalistic but had a bit of a rant style. The Catholic News Agency has pointed out the following:

"It used to be known as “Real Catholic TV.” Being primarily an online and YouTube service, the title was perhaps a bit overly grand. And when the Archdiocese of Detroit decided it wasn’t real Catholic either, Voris et al. were forced to drop the word “Catholic” from their title and changed to the new name, “Church Militant.”

I don’t think much can be said about Purgatory.


#123

Yes, I understand that, all I’m saying is that souls in Purgatory still seem to be bound to some kind of earthly time and need or want to have this time shorten to enter into the eternity of heaven.


#125

And what’s a lifetime in eternity?


#126

Purgatory is fine bec it means one has made it into heaven…eventually. Also without purgatory we’d be worrying too much about our favorite uncle, who was an alcoholic or some such relative…

As for Voris, his website used to be called Real Catholic TV, but the bishop in his diocese forbade him from using the word “Catholic,” so that should be a warning to stay away from his site.


#127

The fact that he obeyed him, unlike say The National Catholic Reporter, should tell you something also. It especially telling since RealCatholicTV was owned by Marc Brammer who is from Indiana, not Detroit. Bishop Rhoades, Marc Brammer’s ordinary, said at the time that he had no problem with Mr Voris or continuing to allow them to use RealCatholicTV, so the fact that Voris and Brammer acquiesced to a Bishop without jurisdiction tells me quite a bit.


#128

Well, before I even learned that I came away with a negative view of his work. At the very least it goes against Carmelite spirituality. I would strongly advise to avoid it.


#130

Then I guess it’s good that Mr Voris is like the vast majority of Catholics and doesn’t aspire to Carmelite spirituality. :wink:

Not that there’s anything wrong with Carmelite, Dominican, Franciscan or any other type of spirituality… Just pointing out that expecting people to match a specific charisma is only important if you are trying to influence others that already have that charisma. Long and Short, I have no clue why his work going against any specific spiritually is of relevance. :man_shrugging:


#131

Interesting, I ended up getting banned from the Church Militant site for saying that Sean Spicer lied about the size of inauguration crowd when he lied about the size of the inauguration crowd. A forum mod named CM (Voris?) told me I was slandering a good Catholic. I pointed out that telling the truth was not slander and a good journalist would know that.

Frankly, if you can’t trust someone to tell the truth about an obvious lie, you cannot trust them to give you the truth on matters of faith. The whole site strikes me more of a televangelist scam than a real Catholic site and the Vatican has rightly called them out. If you want to follow Voris, you are welcome to, but you won’t be following Catholicism at the same time.


#132

I hope this isn’t true. I really have no patience with hypocrisy.


#133

It’s true. It’s very true.


#134

Interesting, I ended up getting banned from the Church Militant site for saying that Sean Spicer lied about the size of inauguration crowd when he lied about the size of the inauguration crowd. A forum mod named CM (Voris?) told me I was slandering a good Catholic. I pointed out that telling the truth was not slander and a good journalist would know that.

Frankly, if you can’t trust someone to tell the truth about an obvious lie, you cannot trust them to give you the truth on matters of faith. The whole site strikes me more of a televangelist scam than a real Catholic site and the Vatican has rightly called them out. If you want to follow Voris, you are welcome to, but you won’t be following Catholicism at the same time.

The cat is out of the bag it seems…:smiley_cat::cat2::handbag::moneybag:


#135

I was just curious what you meant.


#136

Do you think Mr. Voris’s “apostoalte” caters to persons of a certain mindset. I was just pondering this. Not just a specific leaning in Catholicism but a personality type? Take the Myers-Briggs as just one example.


#137

I don’t rightly know. I come from a fairly rigid form of Protestant Christianity, and I could see the appeal of Mr Voris’s unflinching commitment to hard line Catholicism for a while. But eventually it all gets unutterably depressing and bad for my general mental health.


#138

I think his apostolate is meant to bring back the original practices and teachings of what Catholicism used to represent. In my opinion many people are drawn to his style of evangelization because you rarely hear it anymore.

Some people don’t believe there is anything wrong with the Church today and they don’t see a problem with members of the clergy who deny certain teachings of the church or who are too ambiguous in their applications of them.

Numbers don’t lie and they show the Church is in decline. This site alone clearly shows that many Catholics don’t know the faith and many are receiving incorrect information from their priests and clergy. Yet everything seems to get generalized under the banner of “mercy and love” with no emphasis on actual Church teachings.


#139

I think his business caters to those who believe (or imagine, or wish) that the Church used to represent something like what he peddles.

BTW, mercy and love IS what the Church teaches, and always has.


#140

I believe so, though Myers and Briggs are just guys. I would use the phrase “remnant mentality” after both the paper by that name and the OT prophets. There is really something appealing to being one of the few, the proud the chosen, to use the Marine ad. This was the appeal of Gnostism, of cultism, of the hippie culture, of most of us when we are young adults.


#141

Of course Mercy and Love encompass core aspects of our faith, I never suggested otherwise. My point is that eventually every person who believes that the church should ordain women or allow contraception or recognize gay marriage try to use Mercy and Love as their main reasoning behind it.

I’ve yet to hear any convincing argument or proof that the problems affecting the Church today are merely fabrications made up by over zealous traditionalists like Voris for the sake of ratings and book sales.

So far no one has corrected the fact that large numbers of the faithful have left or are no longer practicing the faith. Large numbers no longer believe in the Church’s teachings on contraception and the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Our RCIA classes rarely reflect uniformity in presenting authentic Church teachings, which is why so many converts complain as to what is being taught or rather not taught in RCIA.

This isn’t just a laity issue either. For every Cardinal Sarah and Cardinal Burke there is a Fr. Martin or a Fr. Boyle. The conflict between those who fight to uphold the Traditional Teachings of the Church and those who wish, hope and pray that one day it will be changed is very real. Maybe it’s not an issue in your city or your diocese or your parish, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t happening.

Even the secular media is quick to report on every scandal within the church. Especially when it involves openly gay clergy that are getting arrested or when faithful clergy are getting belittled by members within our own Church for being divisive and close minded because they don’t believe the Church needs to “look into” possibly changing any doctrine to appease the liberal masses.


#142

I’d go with self-hating gay people and people who would be prone to end up in cults.


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