Michael Voris slams "Faithful Citizenship"

In this video, Michael Voris blasts Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship. I wonder if Mr. Voris has read the Voter’s Guide for Serious Catholics.

He has too big of a log stuck in his eye to be messing with the specks of others. “They” staffers, are too emotionally invested that they should recuse themselves??? Pot calling the kettle black here. Typical Rush Limbaugh style political speech. He needs to recuse himself, as sure appears more emtionally invested than any diocesan staffer I have ever met in this topic. He surely is in not better position logically or authoritatively to pick at the USCCB.

If he wasn’t dissing Bishops of the Church, he wouldn’t have anything to say at all.

If we had a clear voter guide, he would not have to broach this subject. Michael is one of the few in the media that is bring up the serious issues. For example, Why do catholics contracept and abort in-line with the general population? Why do catholics vote for pro-abortion candidates when there is a credible alternative candidate that supports more of catholic church teaching?

The reason can be found in US catholic church history since 1965. George Weigel recently wrote an article framing this bit of history around Cardinal Barnadine of Chicago. He lays it out plain and simple.

Without Michael Voris, many catholics would still be lost.

The USCCB voter guide titled Faithful Citizenship was recently rewritten to be more clear. It is still a complete joke. How can this be so complicated you might ask? The bishops that were involved with this publication know the answer and so does Michael.

If you simply follow the church teaching on proportionate reason, no one in the catholic church would even think about voting for Obama this November. As it is, over 50% of “catholics” will cast their vote for the most pro-abortion president in our country’s history.

Wake up!

Faithful Citizenship needs revision because people are using selected quotes to rationalize voting for a pro abortion candidate when you have a pro life alternative. Bishops themselves have raised concerns about it

Ssections 34 - 37 I believe are the problem. These sections create loopholes for Catholics to vote for a pro abortion politician if they feel there is a ‘morally grave’ reason (35), if they do not intend to support a position (34), or if if a political candidate will pursue ‘authentic human goods’ rather than ‘morally-flawed’ position he/she holds (36)

Where else is such language used in any speech or document from Pope John Paul ll, Pope Benedict, various priests or individual Bishops on political principals, political concerns etc ?

Fr Stephen Sorico says voting for a pro abortion candidate when you know there is a pro life alternative is a mortal sin

Only exception for voting for a pro abortion candidate is if there are candidate A who supports unrestricted abortion and candidate B who believes in abortion for rape and incest. To save lives you vote for candidate B. That is similar to what Bishop Gracida said in his voting guide. That is proportionate reasoning. That is not what Faithful Citizenship says and that is why it needs to be revised

Apparently dozens of individual Bishops have issued clarifications on the confusion of Faithful citizenship

Archbishop Raymond Burke believes that Faithful Citizenship is party to blame for the election of the ‘most pro abortion president’ in US history. He said Faithful citizenship ‘led to confusion’ among Catholics

[C]iting an article by a priest and ethics expert of St. Louis archdiocese, Msgr. Kevin McMahon, who analysed how the bishops’ document actually contributed to the election of Obama, [Burke] called its proposal “a kind of false thinking, that says, ‘there’s the evil of taking an innocent and defenceless human life but there are other evils and they’re worthy of equal consideration.’

“But they’re not. The economic situation, or opposition to the war in Iraq, or whatever it may be, those things don’t rise to the same level as something that is always and everywhere evil, namely the killing of innocent and defenceless human life.”

When you have a vatican prelate speak out, clearly there is a problem

Bishop Vasa who contributed to Faithful Citizenship document has rejected the spin that the document excuses people to vote for a pro abortion candidate

'When we were working on the document ‘Faithful Citizenship’, and the issue of whether or not a person’s adamant pro-abortion position was a disqualifying condition, the general sense was ‘yes that is a disqualifying condition’

Bishops Kevin Vann and Kevin Farrell have said there are no ‘truly grave moral’ or ‘proportionate’ reasons, singularly or combined, that could outweigh the millions of innocent human lives that are directly killed by legal abortion each year’

Bishop Joseph Martino has gone as far as to say:

No USCCB document is relevant in this diocese. The USCCB doesn’t speak for me

The diocese released in statement which said Bishop Martino was ‘concerned because of the confusion and public misrepresentations about Catholic teaching on the life issues’

‘Certain groups and individuals have used their own erroneous interpretations of Church documents, particularly the U.S. Bishops’ statement on Faithful Citizenship, to justify their political positions and to contradict the Church’s actual teaching on the centrality of abortion, euthanasia and embryonic stem cell research,’ the statement said

We need more Catholics to be like Mr. Voris and less like the Kennedy’s.

No. We need Catholics to be neither.

I’ve never heard of this guy until coming to this site. Seems like he promotes division in the Church.

I am not a big Voris fan, but in this case, he has a point. The Faithful Citizenship document put out by the USCCB is a disaster. It should have been trashed before it ever got printed and has been a perfect vehicle for dissident Catholics to justify their dissent and for others to be led astray.

There is a time for nuance, and a time for clarity. In this case, the USCCB tried to be all things and overly nuanced and they put out a document that waffles on so many things that people can take it to pretty much mean anything they want. Clear moral teaching is what we need from our bishops.

People do these things becaue they are sinners, just like you and I. They are sinners who believe in aboration and use contraception just like I used to do.

Those who are lost owe their being found to the will of God the Father who runs out to meet his prodigal son. Michael Voris is not Jesus. He is not responsible for the salvation of anyone. If anyone is found, it is because of Jesus.

All Catholicism, all the time, but never a hint of Jesus. Seven minutes of diatribe but not a single mention of Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. I don’t think I’ve ever heard him mention Jesus once. We complain about people who want Jesus without religion but this is exactly the opposite - church politics, policy, doctrine, dogma, obedience or lack thereof - all in the absence of Jesus. You’d think he would mention Jesus at least once.

I’m sorry, all Church and no Jesus makes jack a dull boy.

-Tim-

Reminds me of something Thomas Merton talked about in Seeds of Contemplation; Does hearing Michael Voris talk make you think of Christ or Michael Voris?

:rotfl:

I see that you never really have listened to his programs because he does talk a lot about Jesus. Also his ministry is not to be a preacher but to help exposé the false teaching that have crept into the Church. People that don’t like him usualy are part of the problem.

Voris seems to be on a mission to wake up Catholics to the shambles of Catholic leadership, and leaves spreading the Gospels to others more qualified. I think he excels at his chosen mission, so I wouldn’t criticize him for not doing what he doesn’t intend to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk O
We need more Catholics to be like Mr. Voris and less like the Kennedy’s

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You said there what is going to take 20 pages of bickering to say. Good job. :thumbsup:

And before the issue of the “truth” this guy speaks even comes up, I’ll challenge anyone to distinguish truth from faith. Even the demons know the truth and can express it, and are in fact the first in the Gospels to express the truth about Jesus.
If we’re going to say this man speaks the truth , let’s know the difference between knowing some truth and expressing the Catholic faith authentically.

spreading the Gospels

This is the one and only priority any Catholic should have. It is not the mission of a tv commentator to point out deficiencies in his leaders, and to do it with lack of charity.

I’ve been watching the Vortex for a while, and I’m not sure what to make of it. Michael Voris in interviews come across a lot more personable and a lot more intelligent in his Catholic faith. He’s a big fan of Latin Mass, and hates “liberal catholics”. Though he does question clerics, which is part of the Catholic Liberal movement… Totally different discussion.

He does raise important questions that to be honest really infuriate me. Why haven’t the Bishops excommunicated any, ANY, of the politicians who publicly promote abortion or other intrinsic evils? He’s also brought to my attention liturgical abuses, Catholic in name organizations promoting abortion.

Exactly. He is saying it like it is. May be hard to hear, but that’s that. Catholics need a wake up before this election. The future of America will depend on it. And so will the lives of unborn children and the souls of voters…

I’ve met Mr. Voris. He is very nice and approachable. He may look like a big bad wolf, but he is very nice.

But this is the wrong question, IMO. The correct question is:

**Where is language contrary to this used in any speech or document from Pope Benedict or any official Vatican spokesperson?

**The answer to how I can vote a pro-choice candidate is that I am way old and know that all the anti-abortion rhetoric is just that. No president or anyone else is going to overturn Roe v Wade. In fact, they don’t want to, it’s all lip-service. But they are going to kill innocent people in unjust wars and create homelessness and cut benefits to the most needy, favor their wealthy friends in becoming wealthier at the expense of the rest of us and cover up their crimes and tell everyone that greed is good and indifference to social issues is the American Way.

I never needed some document from the USCCB to justify my vote. I don’t need to justify my vote to anyone, maybe Jesus someday. And He’ll know exactly what I based my voting choice on: everything He said.

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