Misleadfing information from Apoligists


#1

Tim Staples & Mr. Cotton today on Catholic answers as well as Jimmy Akin continue to make misleading statements about the Washing of the feet on Holy Thursday.

They all have made the statement that Pius XII introduced the foot washing ceremony is 1955.

Sorry, but the ceremony has been part of the Holy Thursday Services for hundreds of years.

In the 1940s I assisted at that ceremony every year that I was an Altar Boy.

In those days, the services consisted of the following in this order:

1) The Holy Thursday Mass
2) The procession taking the Chalice containing the consecrated Hosts to the Altar of repose
3) Stripping of the Altar
4) Washing of the feet.

The Washing of the feet was not mandatory but was performed in every church I had personal knowledge of, including those years when I was in the seminary prior to 1955.

Pius XII made it an integral part of the Mass in 1955. But he did not introduce it.

Where the idea comes from that he INTRODUCED the ceremony is beyond my comprehension.


#2

[quote="paulmaf, post:1, topic:322373"]

Pius XII made it an integral part of the Mass in 1955. But he did not introduce it.

[/quote]

One could say that Pius XII introduced the washing of the feet as a part of the Holy Thursday Mass in 1955. Prior to that it was not part of the mass.


#3

this! :shrug:


#4

In the grand scheme of things, does it really matter? What is important is that it is performed and taught.


#5

[quote="ejp123, post:4, topic:322373"]
In the grand scheme of things, does it really matter?

[/quote]

Yes, it matters inasmuch as it was incorporated within the Liturgy of the Eucharist on Holy Thursday. You don't add things to the Holy Mass unless they are *really *important, and it's also good for us who don't know much beyond the "Novus Ordo Missae" to learn that this was not present within the Mass itself previously (if anything, we will appreciate it more).

I read elsewhere: "from 1570 to 1955, the Roman Missal printed, after the text of the Holy Thursday Mass, a rite of washing of feet unconnected with the Mass. The 1955 revision by Pope Pius XII inserted it into the Mass."

By the way, our fellow Apologists aren't like you and me, random users...they know their stuff :D


#6

[quote="marty1818, post:2, topic:322373"]
One could say that Pius XII introduced the washing of the feet as a part of the Holy Thursday Mass in 1955. Prior to that it was not part of the mass.

[/quote]

But it was part of the liturgy for Holy Thursday. Liturgy is more than just the Mass.

Despite that, it is still misleading to just say, "Pope Pius XII" introduced this in 1955. If they say that he made it an integral part of the Mass of Holy Thursday that would be accurate and not misleading.


#7

[quote="paulmaf, post:6, topic:322373"]

If they say that he made it an integral part of the Mass of Holy Thursday that would be accurate and not misleading.

[/quote]

To say that an optional rite is an integral part of the Holy Thursday Mass seems both inaccurate and misleading.


#8

[quote="marty1818, post:7, topic:322373"]
To say that an optional rite is an integral part of the Holy Thursday Mass seems both inaccurate and misleading.

[/quote]

Not really. There are many things in the Mass that are optional but are still an integral part of the Mass. Just look at your missal.
As an example, the sign of peace for the laity is optional, yet is an integral part of the Mass. The "I Confess" is an integral part of the Mass, but it is optional.

The sprinkling of Holy water is an integral part of the Mass but is optional.
The list is pretty long.


#9

[quote="R_C, post:5, topic:322373"]
Yes, it matters inasmuch as it was incorporated within the Liturgy of the Eucharist on Holy Thursday. You don't add things to the Holy Mass unless they are *really *important, and it's also good for us who don't know much beyond the "Novus Ordo Missae" to learn that this was not present within the Mass itself previously (if anything, we will appreciate it more).

I read elsewhere: "from 1570 to 1955, the Roman Missal printed, after the text of the Holy Thursday Mass, a rite of washing of feet unconnected with the Mass. The 1955 revision by Pope Pius XII inserted it into the Mass."

By the way, our fellow Apologists aren't like you and me, random users...they know their stuff :D

[/quote]

Obviously, when they say, "Pius the XII introduced this in 1955." with no clarifying remarks they do not "know their stuff."


#10

When I was an altar boy in the 40's the priest always washed our feet at the Holy Thursday Liturgy. I don't remember when in the service he did it.

[However, it was wise to ask for the Final Anointing if you had a hole in your sock; your mother would kill you when you got home. :D Likewise on Good Friday, where you took your shoes off for the Veneration of the Cross.]


#11

In my opinion Patrick Coffin, Tim Staples, and Jimmy Akin are very knowledgeable, and would not and should not be accused of "continue to make misleading statements". It has been my experience in listening to them over the years that they are very careful and exacting what they say, or they explain what they know to be true versus what they believe is their opinion. I would think if this is so serious a problem with the OP, that he should bring it up directly to Mr. Staples, Coffin, and/or Staples through calling them or sending them a direct email.

I also find it interesting that statement is made with a trial membership.


#12

[quote="paulmaf, post:8, topic:322373"]
Not really. There are many things in the Mass that are optional but are still an integral part of the Mass. Just look at your missal.
As an example, the sign of peace for the laity is optional, yet is an integral part of the Mass. The "I Confess" is an integral part of the Mass, but it is optional.

The sprinkling of Holy water is an integral part of the Mass but is optional.
The list is pretty long.

[/quote]

I think you have a misconception of what "in the Mass" and "outside of the Mass" means. Those optional Rites are in the Mass, the washing of the feet was not in the Mass, it was after the closing of the Communion Rite and final blessing from what I understand, so it was outside of the Mass unto 1955.

The Apologists are accurate and well respected, please do not come here and criticize them, they deserve more respect than this.

The washing of the feet till this day is still completely optional and not required. The penitential rite is required but many options are available; of which you mention the Sprinkling rite, and Confiteor. But none the less, the PR is required.


#13

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