Mix of Extrodinary Form and English Novus Ordo Mass


#1

I’m not sure if the mass I attended was an iffy mixing of masses, or a completely normal and valid form of the mass. I really am curious if this was an EF mass, as I’ve never been to one. At the same time, it doesn’t seem to fit what I’ve read about EF masses.

The priest announced 3 minutes before mass we would be celebrating an EF mass, and gives a brief explanation that it has a better rhyme and cadence, and is a tradition of the church. This is a first in the parish, it wasn’t in the bulletin.

The tabernacle is facing West. He faced the tabernacle, standing in front of the alter in what would be “Ad Orientem,” except it was facing West.

Everything was exactly the same as a N.O., except the Liturgy of the Eucharist was in Latin. The priest also bowed his head at the name of Jesus.


#2

The OF can be said ad orientem and can be said in a mix of Latin and vernacular.

The EF should be entirely in Latin (except for the homily, and the readings may be repeated in the vernacular) and its prayers have numerous differences from those of the OF.

The priest may have made a mistake in saying ‘EF’, as it seems this was not what was celebrated. What you heard was a valid if unusual OF.


#3

It makes no difference which compass direction your church or tabernacle faces, north, south, east, or west. Whether the priest celebrant faces Ad Orientem or Versus populum has nothing to do with the compass direction east.

As the other poster noted, it sounds as though what you had was an Ordinary Form Mass partly in Latin. This is quite valid. The Extraordinary Form Mass is almost entirely in Latin and is longer as it has extra prayers. I would ask the priest politely.


#4

It was an OF in Latin. If it was an EF then at least a large portion of the Liturgy of the Word (Mass of the Catechumens as it's called in the EF) would have been in Latin, likely all of it, actually.


#5

Yeah. It's very much valid and EWTN has it as their Mass...about half of the time.


#6

[quote="Leonce, post:1, topic:324476"]
The priest also bowed his head at the name of Jesus.

[/quote]

This is prescribed in the General Instruction of the Roman Missal (Ordinary Form). Everyone is to bow their head at the name of Jesus, at the name of Mary, when the Three Persons of the Holy Trinity are mentioned, and the name of the saint of the day.


#7

[quote="Leonce, post:1, topic:324476"]
I'm not sure if the mass I attended was an iffy mixing of masses, or a completely normal and valid form of the mass. I really am curious if this was an EF mass, as I've never been to one. At the same time, it doesn't seem to fit what I've read about EF masses.

The priest announced 3 minutes before mass we would be celebrating an EF mass, and gives a brief explanation that it has a better rhyme and cadence, and is a tradition of the church. This is a first in the parish, it wasn't in the bulletin.

The tabernacle is facing West. He faced the tabernacle, standing in front of the alter in what would be "Ad Orientem," except it was facing West.

Everything was exactly the same as a N.O., except the Liturgy of the Eucharist was in Latin. The priest also bowed his head at the name of Jesus.

[/quote]

Did he actually say EF or extraordinary form mass? I have actually never heard that spoken outside of this website.


#8

Personally I would love if something of a hybrid Mass was created.

Liturgy of the Word like it is today, but the Liturgy of the Eucharist like in EF. Priest faces away from the people, prayers in Latin, prays the consecration quietly and then holds up the consecrated bread and wine high above his head. Something about the consecration in the EF is so much more powerful than the OF. He can face toward the people and speak the vernacular again from the Lord's prayer onward.


#9

Re-read my original post and I was a bit vague.

The Liturgy of the Eucharist was different than a Latin OF. I regularly went to a bi-weekly OF in Latin back in college, and it was led by various priests (one of whom was a Latin scholar / former Latin professor.) I’ve never seen an EF mass, but the Liturgy of the Eucharist was different from the OF form (Latin or Vernacular.)


#10

[quote="Reborn2013, post:7, topic:324476"]
Did he actually say EF or extraordinary form mass? I have actually never heard that spoken outside of this website.

[/quote]

He said it at least five or six times in his announcement before mass; it was a bit irregular. In my experience, masses are announced.

I'm a bit of a Catholic nerd, and I've read a good deal of Catholic blogs and publications in the past ten years. I'm familiar with the term, just not the EF Mass itself.


#11

[quote="LilyM, post:2, topic:324476"]
The OF can be said ad orientem and can be said in a mix of Latin and vernacular.

The EF should be entirely in Latin (except for the homily, and the readings may be repeated in the vernacular) and its prayers have numerous differences from those of the OF.

The priest may have made a mistake in saying 'EF', as it seems this was not what was celebrated. What you heard was a valid if unusual OF.

[/quote]

Not just unusual. It was likely closer to the ideal.


#12

[quote="porthos11, post:11, topic:324476"]
Not just unusual. It was likely closer to the ideal.

[/quote]

Yeah, it wasn't a Latin OF. Should have clarified I'm familiar with this form. :-)


#13

[quote="Leonce, post:9, topic:324476"]
Re-read my original post and I was a bit vague.

The Liturgy of the Eucharist was different than a Latin OF. I regularly went to a bi-weekly OF in Latin back in college, and it was led by various priests (one of whom was a Latin scholar / former Latin professor.) I've never seen an EF mass, but the Liturgy of the Eucharist was different from the OF form (Latin or Vernacular.)

[/quote]

Different how?


#14

So wait, first "Everything was exactly the same as a N.O., except the Liturgy of the Eucharist was in Latin." But then "The Liturgy of the Eucharist was different than a Latin OF." So was it the same, or different? And if it was different, are you sure there weren't other differences in the Mass, such as the prayers at the foot of the altar at the beginning?


#15

[quote="MarkThompson, post:14, topic:324476"]
So wait, first "Everything was exactly the same as a N.O., except the Liturgy of the Eucharist was in Latin." But then "The Liturgy of the Eucharist was different than a Latin OF." So was it the same, or different? And if it was different, are you sure there weren't other differences in the Mass, such as the prayers at the foot of the altar at the beginning?

[/quote]

:wave:

Oh, if you look at my last posts I clarified I was too vague. Might just be internet semantics, but I take my integrity/character seriously, and would prefer to not have quotes out of context. I don't regularly quote people like that in person. Shouldn't we be the same online? :-)

I don't comprehend Latin, so it's difficult to describe. Liturgy of the Eucharist was in Latin "form." would have been a better clarifier. I don't really know what it was, so I can't per-say call it an EF Latin form. All I know is that it was in Latin.

I'm very familiar with the NO mass, and I was in the front row. There weren't any changes- outside of what I mentioned.

My main question was: Is this an EF Mass? (Not really is the EF form good or etc.) Mostly, I want to make sure I attend a valid Mass, and receive valid sacraments.


#16

[quote="Leonce, post:15, topic:324476"]
:wave:

Oh, if you look at my last posts I clarified I was too vague. Might just be internet semantics, but I take my integrity/character seriously, and would prefer to not have quotes out of context. I don't regularly quote people like that in person. Shouldn't we be the same online? :-)

I don't comprehend Latin, so it's difficult to describe. Liturgy of the Eucharist was in Latin "form." would have been a better clarifier. I don't really know what it was, so I can't per-say call it an EF Latin form. All I know is that it was in Latin.

I'm very familiar with the NO mass, and I was in the front row. There weren't any changes.

My main question was: Is this an EF Mass? (Not really is the EF form good or etc.) Mostly, I want to make sure I attend a valid Mass, and receive valid sacraments.

[/quote]

Just because it was in Latin does not mean anything. You said you recognized differences so we'd just like to know what the differences were. For example:

Was the prayer over the gifts said silently or audibly?
Was the Eucharistic Prayer and Consecration said silently or audibly?
Was there a memorial acclamation/mysterium fidei?
How many times was the Domine non sum dignus/Lord I am not worthy said? Once or thrice?

It is perfectly normal for the OF to be said in Latin with the priest facing the same direction (i.e. away) from the people so that alone does not tell us whether it was EF or OF. Be specific with the differences you observed.


#17

It was quieter, which is partially why it’s hard to describe. It was audible, but not loud.


#18

There was the Eucharistic Prayer, then straight to the Our Father.

I wouldn’t have posted if it didn’t seem iffy, and this does to me.

Edited to add:

The prayer over the gifts was silent, although he always says them silently. (Which I believe is fine in the NO.)


#19

This link (.pdf file) compares the EF and OF Masses side by side.

latinmassschedule.com/Resources/A%20COMPARISON%20between%20the%20old%20and%20new%20liturgy.pdf

Maybe you can look through this and see which one was celebrated. Hope it helps. :)


#20

[quote="Leonce, post:18, topic:324476"]
There was the Eucharistic Prayer, then straight to the Our Father.

I wouldn't have posted if it didn't seem iffy, and this does to me.

Edited to add:

The prayer over the gifts was silent, although he always says them silently. (Which I believe is fine in the NO.)

[/quote]

Eucharistic Prayer straight to Our Father is true for both forms.

Were there any altar cards? What did the priest while distributing Communion?


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