Modernists and Traditionalists Alike?


#1

What do you think about this article? Makes a lot of sense to me.

beta1.catholicculture.org/commentary/articles.cfm?id=180


#2

Other than the fact that I wouldn’t use Traditionalists but Radical Traditionalists, it was OK. I don’t think that Radical Traditionalists should be lumped in with the Traditionalists.


#3

Makes sense but I could have said that too. What is the real solution? Not to play the game, per movie WarGames?


#4

I went to a luncheon the other day with a “spirit” club we have includes all the four parishes and we eat and talk, mostly ladies club but husbands come and some priests. We usually have a speaker or some program and this time we had a Dominican nun she gave a couple talks and I did want to share this as it has right on the idea for your thread.
She calls it signs of the crossing, I can’t put it on screen as it is a paper.
picture a horizontal hour glass
This make it seem like a wave at the bottom and one at the top and of course narrow in the middle
the chart is to much to put out on screen and would take a long time to type. so I will jsut write what we discussed.
the old wave is on top it is waning
the new is rising then in the middle is the eddy or turbulence when these are coming together this is what happened in the 60’sthat is the middle of the hour glass
"If the perturbation affects a sufficient number of persons or groups or challenges significant concentration of power, a major counterflow -an eddy - can form. In culture, as in nature, there is no change without resistance."
Now these waves are both going to come out on the other side
and place another hour glass horizontal next to that one and you have the picture of the next eddy we are in.
Some things we dis cussed
the old patriarchy —the new gender equity==== partnership
this next one we discussed but not on chart
old suicidal death not burried in CC cemetary now OK, under social
old state power- - new emerging influence of non-stat actors ====global civil society
Religious Exclusivism–Religous Inclusivism and Pluralism=====Global Interreligous Movement
put all of those and the next these equals at the top for the next older wave
Inevitability and Usefullness of War- Nonviolent Conflict Resolution====="Soft Power"
Declining Interest in Spirituality-Deepening of Spiritual Practice =====Interspirituality
:frowning: worried about that one a bit
Mind and Body as Seperate Entities-Exploration of the Mind -Body connection======
no equals so they must of forgot that John guy who reads everybody minds and talks to the dead, never thought I would see the day when these fakes would be believed by so many.
So no I don’t think they are alike but they certainly have tried to work together. Dessert


#5

Another story from catholicculture.org

Is this Nassiri fellow really a Catholic? What do you think?

beta1.catholicculture.org/commentary/blog.cfm?displaymode=category&browseid=10&browsename=Information

The literature surrounding Fred Nassiri tends to downplay his Catholicism, which I suppose he believes necessary to his message of peace, but this may also stem from his great respect for all the world’s great religious traditions, including his native Islam. This is consistent, for example, with his long-time refusal to return to Iran, even to perform, because of Iran’s official stance of wanting to obliterate Israel. In any case, when asked about his religion, Nassiri states that he is a Catholic but he does not renounce any religion.

I don’t say Muslim is bad. I love Muslim, I love Christian, I love Buddhism because they all want to send the same message, so I do not renounce any religion. I accept all religions. So I am Catholic now, but I also pray with Moslems, I also go to Jewish synagogues. I take a little bit from all those prophets to take me to God. I don’t say mine is better than yours; it’s the same path.
Whatever he may lack in precision, Nassiri is a Catholic and he has close ties to the Franciscans. Recently, through the involvement of the Franciscan convent in Assisi, he was able to meet with the organization Peacey to be awarded their Dove of Peace.


#6

What an ignoramus. The author paints with a broad brush and doesn’t bother to quote even one “traditionalist” or “modernist” source to back up his drivel.

He seems to behave like the protaganists in a Greek drama, “who judge everything so exclusively from within the citadel of their own personal certainties that they continuously miss the mark.” Or something.


#7

What makes him an ignoramus?

I thought he hit the nail on the head, though I agree with Bear, I would have said “radical traditionalists.”


#8

Usually he’s quite precise and hardly an ignoramus. You might want to check into some of his other works. When the site was named Petersnet, people actually thought him to be great. I think most don’t realize it’s the same site. I’m all for citing sources but this was really an opinion piece. I think Cardinal Newman was the only person he referenced and it wasn’t a direct quote but it would have been nice to see where he expressed that idea.


#9

I seriously doubt if the author is an ignoramus. In fact he expressed many things that I myself would have wanted to say if only I had the time, although the problem isn’t with traditionalism as such, which is essentially a harmless preference for the old, pre-Vatican 2 days, but with radical traditionalists.


#10

Just as I said, he doesn’t bother to quote even one source to back up his ad hominem attacks. Neither Traditionalists nor Modernists are shy about sharing their opinions. They are scattered all across the internet. Shouldn’t be too difficult, one would think, to provide a few examples.

I realize it’s an opinion piece. Which means his opinion is based not on facts, but rather on ignorance. Hence, he is an ignoramus.


#11

It was an op. ed. piece. What specificallty do you feel needed sourcing? I mean, if I say “Blue is a nice color” do I need to provide a source? You just gave you opinion without sources. Are you an ignoramus? You’ve certainly failed to give a source regarding the fact that he’s ignorant. You just said he was therefore we must all think it so?:shrug:


#12

Sweetie, I haven’t made broad attacks based on personal opinion on large groups of people. If you say, “Blue people believe thus and so and as a result of that belief are deficient in the following way…” you have an obligation to provide examples of blue people expressing these beliefs. That’s why my opinions don’t require sourcing. Capice?


#13

This thread is now closed. Thank you to all who participated.


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