Mohammed


#1

In regards to the apparitions from the angel Gabriel to Mohammed and if the apparitions are true or is this a false religion, I think this information will be helpful as the main clue:

In the Old and New Testaments, when an apparition comes from heaven, the messenger always has the same comment and it is "Do Not Be afraid". This is the same as the angel Gabriel to Mary and Jesus at the Transfiguration as well as Our Lady of Guadalupe, Fatima, etc. If the messenger does not address the person with "Do not be afraid", I think the safe bet is "Do not believe". I do not remember Gariel saying tis to Mohammed.

Peace:)


#2

[quote="whatistruth, post:1, topic:278139"]
In regards to the apparitions from the angel Gabriel to Mohammed and if the apparitions are true or is this a false religion, I think this information will be helpful as the main clue:

In the Old and New Testaments, when an apparition comes from heaven, the messenger always has the same comment and it is "Do Not Be afraid". This is the same as the angel Gabriel to Mary and Jesus at the Transfiguration as well as Our Lady of Guadalupe, Fatima, etc. If the messenger does not address the person with "Do not be afraid", I think the safe bet is "Do not believe". I do not remember Gariel saying tis to Mohammed.

Peace:)

[/quote]

Whether "Gabriel" said that or not, we know that it is not from God. There is only one Truth, and the Muslim religion is a confusion of wrong teaching about Jesus. (Of course, it could NOT have been Gabriel.)


#3

Not to mention mohammed was fearful of the angel. Personally, I don't doubt for a minute that Mohammed was visited by an angel. I just don't think his name was Gabriel. Reality would suggest his name was Lucifer. This would explain the present day world of islamic countries and really all of islam since it was created. Nothing good comes from islam. That isn't to say muslim people are bad. I'm certainly not advocating that. But the belief of islam is one that draws stark contrast to what Christ taught and believed.


#4

Not only did he not say ‘don’t be afraid’, but he actually beat and choked Mohammad.

Either Moh had some serious mental problems or this was a demon taking the appearance of an angel.


#5

[quote="PumpkinSeed, post:4, topic:278139"]
Not only did he not say 'don't be afraid', but he actually beat and choked Mohammad.

Either Moh had some serious mental problems or this was a demon taking the appearance of an angel.

[/quote]

my thoughts exactly:thumbsup:


#6

It may be of interest to quote what Bukhari collected in Hadiths regarding the experience of Prophet Muhammad:

Khadija then accompanied him to her cousin
Waraqa bin Naufal bin Asad bin 'Abdul 'Uzza,
who, during the PreIslamic Period became a
Christian and used to write the writing with
Hebrew letters. He would write from the Gospel
in Hebrew as much as Allah wished him to write.
He was an old man and had lost his eyesight.
Khadija said to Waraqa, "Listen to the story of
your nephew, O my cousin!" Waraqa asked, "O
my nephew! What have you seen?" Allah's
Apostle described whatever he had seen.

Waraqa said, "This is the same one who keeps
the secrets (angel Gabriel) whom Allah had sent
to Moses. I wish I were young and could live up
to the time when your people would turn you
out."

Allah's Apostle asked, "Will they drive me
out?" Waraqa replied in the affirmative and said,
"Anyone (man) who came with something similar
to what you have brought was treated with
hostility; and if I should remain alive till the day
when you will be turned out then I would support
you strongly."

But after a few days Waraqa died
and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a
while.

(Hadith, Bukhari Vol 1)

So I think this was prophetic on the part of Waraqa when he is reported to have said:

"Anyone (man) who came with something similar
to what you have brought was treated with
hostility; and if I should remain alive till the day
when you will be turned out then I would support
you strongly."


#7

[quote="PumpkinSeed, post:4, topic:278139"]
Not only did he not say 'don't be afraid', but he actually beat and choked Mohammad.

Either Moh had some serious mental problems or this was a demon taking the appearance of an angel.

[/quote]

There was a section of the Koran in which Mohammed discussed with his wife whether the angel was from God or Satan. She convinced him the angel was from "Allah." They were later removed, but are known as the Satanic Verses. I don't know much about them, but apparently it is offensive to Muslims to talk about it.


#8

[quote="stevekehl, post:7, topic:278139"]
There was a section of the Koran in which Mohammed discussed with his wife whether the angel was from God or Satan. She convinced him the angel was from "Allah." They were later removed, but are known as the Satanic Verses. I don't know much about them, but apparently it is offensive to Muslims to talk about it.

[/quote]

I would like to read them. are they anywhere on the internet?


#9

This is a full detailed CAF thread about Muhammed & the claimed Gabriel:
forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=426110


#10

plus Muhammed himself was thinking it might be a demon


#11

[quote="stevekehl, post:7, topic:278139"]
There was a section of the Koran in which Mohammed discussed with his wife whether the angel was from God or Satan. She convinced him the angel was from "Allah." They were later removed, but are known as the Satanic Verses. I don't know much about them, but apparently it is offensive to Muslims to talk about it.

[/quote]

wasn't there a man, perhaps a muslim, who wrote a book titled the Satanic Verses and he had to go into hiding for many, many years because of death threats.


#12

Salman Rushdi, The Satanic Verses.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Verses

The Satanic Verses is Salman Rushdie’s fourth novel, first published in 1988 and inspired in part by the life of Muhammad. As with his previous books, Rushdie used magical realism and relied on contemporary events and people to create his characters.

The title refers to the so-called “satanic verses”, a group of alleged Quranic verses that allow intercessory prayers to be made to three Pagan Meccan goddesses: Allāt, Uzza, and Manāt.[1] The part of the story that deals with the “satanic verses” was based on accounts from the 1st millennium (AD or AH) historians al-Waqidi and al-Tabari.[1]
In the United Kingdom, the book received positive reviews.

It was a 1988 Booker Prize Finalist (losing to Peter Carey’s Oscar and Lucinda) and won the 1988 Whitbread Award for novel of the year.[2]

The Satanic Verses sparked a major controversy when conservative Muslims accused it of blasphemy and mocking their faith. The outrage among some Muslims resulted in a fatwā calling for Rushdie’s death issued by Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the Supreme Leader of Iran, on 14 February 1989


#13

[quote="Miriam1947, post:12, topic:278139"]
Salman Rushdi, The Satanic Verses.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Verses

The Satanic Verses is Salman Rushdie's fourth novel, first published in 1988 and inspired in part by the life of Muhammad. As with his previous books, Rushdie used magical realism and relied on contemporary events and people to create his characters.

The title refers to the so-called "satanic verses", a group of alleged Quranic verses that allow intercessory prayers to be made to three Pagan Meccan goddesses: Allāt, Uzza, and Manāt.[1] The part of the story that deals with the "satanic verses" was based on accounts from the 1st millennium (AD or AH) historians al-Waqidi and al-Tabari.[1]
In the United Kingdom, the book received positive reviews.

It was a 1988 Booker Prize Finalist (losing to Peter Carey's Oscar and Lucinda) and won the 1988 Whitbread Award for novel of the year.[2]

The Satanic Verses sparked a major controversy when conservative Muslims accused it of blasphemy and mocking their faith. The outrage among some Muslims resulted in a fatwā calling for Rushdie's death issued by Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the Supreme Leader of Iran, on 14 February 1989

[/quote]

Certainly did spark a major controversy and yes a death issue is very accurate.


#14

[quote="arabic_catholic, post:10, topic:278139"]
plus Muhammed himself was thinking it might be a demon

[/quote]

Well he should of. It choked and beat him. Even I'm smart enough to know that if some spirit did that to me, its a demon or I have mental problems.

Mohammad should of just taken it as what I just said and then we wouldn't have billions of people lead astray.

It's a shame.


#15

[quote="whatistruth, post:1, topic:278139"]
In regards to the apparitions from the angel Gabriel to Mohammed and if the apparitions are true or is this a false religion, I think this information will be helpful as the main clue:

In the Old and New Testaments, when an apparition comes from heaven, the messenger always has the same comment and it is "Do Not Be afraid". This is the same as the angel Gabriel to Mary and Jesus at the Transfiguration as well as Our Lady of Guadalupe, Fatima, etc. If the messenger does not address the person with "Do not be afraid", I think the safe bet is "Do not believe". I do not remember Gariel saying tis to Mohammed.

Peace:)

[/quote]

Er, are you sure about that? Have you even checked? And what about the presence of those words indicates a true apparation?

I'm not sure why Christians care about what Muhammed experienced, assuming that he did. I always thought that the Gospel was good enough for Christianity--why do Christians go about debating what "actually" happened when for Christians' purposes, it wouldn't matter if Muhammed made it up or saw God himself?


#16

[quote="Bezant, post:15, topic:278139"]
I'm not sure why Christians care about what Muhammed experienced, assuming that he did. I always thought that the Gospel was good enough for Christianity...

[/quote]

Well, it would be quite difficult to successfully evangelize Muslims without at least a fundamental understanding of their religion. Avoiding the very means of the revelation of the Qur'an would be a fruitless tactic, to be sure.

...having said that, to reject it simply for the reasons as have been stated in the OP, would not be particularly helpful. To them, it may seem just as silly as, for us, are their arguments against the divinity of Our Lord.* "But how could God eat food?"* is not exactly a question that would leave us breathless.


#17

To evangelize Muslims you have to convince them how could a demon come to Prophet Mohammed asking him to teach people that God is One. Arabs back then were worshipping statues and demons were very happy seeing them do so.

It is not that difficult to believe that Prophet Mohammed was visited by an angel, Angel Gabriel, because the teachings of Islam can no way be brought to us by demons.

Consider that demons might be the onse who visited those who came up with the idea that Jesus is the son of god, and that he said to people worship me as god, and that god allowed his son to die to clean your sins, and that he was raised in the third day. This shows that you are actually not worshipping one God, as father was alive and son was dead for three days, so one is alive and one is dead, how come they are one?

For Muslims, Jesus is so honored and loved, but to say that he is god, sorry, God is only One, He has no son, He is not like us who need to eat and sleep, He is the creator of heavens and earth, and He sent Prophet Jesus to ask people to worship God alone.

And for those who are wondering why would God send another Prophet after Jesus and another revelation, it is obviously because there was a strong need for that, people started believing in things that Jesus did not teach, there was a need for Islam, the submission to God, to guide people to the One True God, as people started contributing partners with Him, the Almighty.

Quran 5. They do blaspheme who say: “Allah is Christ the son of Mary.” But said Christ: “O children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord, and your Lord.” Whoever joins other gods with Allah―Allah will forbid him the Garden and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help. (72) They disbelieve who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One God. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them. (73) Why turn they not to Allah and seek His forgiveness? For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (74) Christ the son of Mary was no more than an Messenger; many were the Messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth makes His Signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth! (75) Say: Will ye worship, besides Allah, something which hath no power either to harm or benefit you? But Allah,― He it is that heareth and knoweth all things." (76) Say: "O people of the Book! Exceed not in your religion the bounds (of what is proper), trespassing beyond the truth, nor follow the vain desires of people who went wrong in times gone by― who misled many, and strayed (themselves) from the even Way. (77) Curses were pronounced on those among the Children of Israel who rejected Faith by the tongue of David and of Jesus the son of Mary: because they disobeyed and persisted in Excesses. (78) Nor did they (usually) forbid one another the iniquities which they committed: evil indeed were the deeds which they did. (79) Thou seest many of them turning in friendship to the Unbelievers. Evil indeed are (the works) which their souls have sent forward before them, (with the result) that Allah’s wrath is on them and in torment will they abide. (80) If only they had believed in Allah, in the Prophet and in what hath been revealed to him, never would they have taken them for friends and protectors but most of them are rebellious wrong-doers. (81) Strongest among men in enmity to the Believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the Believers wilt thou find those who say: “We are Christians:” because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant. (82) And when they listen to the revelation received by the Messenger, thou wilt see their eyes overflowing with tears, for they recognise the truth: they pray: "Our Lord! we believe; write us down among the witnesses. (83) “What cause can we have not to believe in Allah and the truth which has come to us, seeing that we long for our Lord to admit us to the company of the righteous?” (84) And for this their prayer hath Allah rewarded them with Gardens with rivers, flowing underneath their eternal Home. Such is the recompense of those who do good. (85) But those who reject Faith and belie our Signs,― they shall be companions of Hell-Fire. (86).


#18

^ if people were leading astray from Jesus's teachings, that doesn't mean God has to go send a new prophet who ends up denying Jesus. It just means people needed to start living the way Jesus did.

Sending a new prophet to start a new religion while denying the old one is just unnecessary. Moh is a false prophet.


#19

[quote="whatistruth, post:1, topic:278139"]
In regards to the apparitions from the angel Gabriel to Mohammed and if the apparitions are true or is this a false religion, I think this information will be helpful as the main clue:

In the Old and New Testaments, when an apparition comes from heaven, the messenger always has the same comment and it is "Do Not Be afraid". This is the same as the angel Gabriel to Mary and Jesus at the Transfiguration as well as Our Lady of Guadalupe, Fatima, etc. If the messenger does not address the person with "Do not be afraid", I think the safe bet is "Do not believe". I do not remember Gariel saying tis to Mohammed.

Peace:)

[/quote]

I think that the words of Jesus are the best.

Christ the Lord in whom the entire revelation of the most high God is summed up Cor 1:20 3:16 4:6 having fulfilled in his own person and promulgated with his own lips the Gospel promised beforehand by the prophets, commanded the Apostles to preach it to everyone as the source of all saving truth and moral law communicating Gods gifts to them.

To sum it up, Jesus told us everything we need to know. If he was sending another, he would have told us so. As the O.T. told us what to look for.

Jesus fulfilled it. Completely!! Jesus said the Son of Man will return the same way he left through the sky. Thats it. Pretty simple.


#20

[quote="Amoon, post:17, topic:278139"]
To evangelize Muslims you have to convince them how could a demon come to Prophet Mohammed asking him to teach people that God is One. Arabs back then were worshipping statues and demons were very happy seeing them do so.

It is not that difficult to believe that Prophet Mohammed was visited by an angel, Angel Gabriel, because the teachings of Islam can no way be brought to us by demons.

Consider that demons might be the onse who visited those who came up with the idea that Jesus is the son of god, and that he said to people worship me as god, and that god allowed his son to die to clean your sins, and that he was raised in the third day. This shows that you are actually not worshipping one God, as father was alive and son was dead for three days, so one is alive and one is dead, how come they are one?

For Muslims, Jesus is so honored and loved, but to say that he is god, sorry, God is only One, He has no son, He is not like us who need to eat and sleep, He is the creator of heavens and earth, and He sent Prophet Jesus to ask people to worship God alone.

And for those who are wondering why would God send another Prophet after Jesus and another revelation, it is obviously because there was a strong need for that, people started believing in things that Jesus did not teach, there was a need for Islam, the submission to God, to guide people to the One True God, as people started contributing partners with Him, the Almighty.

Quran 5. They do blaspheme who say: "Allah is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord, and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah―Allah will forbid him the Garden and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help. (72) They disbelieve who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One God. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them. (73) Why turn they not to Allah and seek His forgiveness? For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (74) Christ the son of Mary was no more than an Messenger; many were the Messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth makes His Signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth! (75) Say: Will ye worship, besides Allah, something which hath no power either to harm or benefit you? But Allah,― He it is that heareth and knoweth all things." (76) Say: "O people of the Book! Exceed not in your religion the bounds (of what is proper), trespassing beyond the truth, nor follow the vain desires of people who went wrong in times gone by― who misled many, and strayed (themselves) from the even Way. (77) Curses were pronounced on those among the Children of Israel who rejected Faith by the tongue of David and of Jesus the son of Mary: because they disobeyed and persisted in Excesses. (78) Nor did they (usually) forbid one another the iniquities which they committed: evil indeed were the deeds which they did. (79) Thou seest many of them turning in friendship to the Unbelievers. Evil indeed are (the works) which their souls have sent forward before them, (with the result) that Allah's wrath is on them and in torment will they abide. (80) If only they had believed in Allah, in the Prophet and in what hath been revealed to him, never would they have taken them for friends and protectors but most of them are rebellious wrong-doers. (81) Strongest among men in enmity to the Believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the Believers wilt thou find those who say: "We are Christians:" because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant. (82) And when they listen to the revelation received by the Messenger, thou wilt see their eyes overflowing with tears, for they recognise the truth: they pray: "Our Lord! we believe; write us down among the witnesses. (83) "What cause can we have not to believe in Allah and the truth which has come to us, seeing that we long for our Lord to admit us to the company of the righteous?" (84) And for this their prayer hath Allah rewarded them with Gardens with rivers, flowing underneath their eternal Home. Such is the recompense of those who do good. (85) But those who reject Faith and belie our Signs,― they shall be companions of Hell-Fire. (86).

[/quote]

What make you think Mohammed didn't hear about Christ the same way we did? Through the Apostles, Why would he need a angel?:confused:


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