Moral Teaching & the TLM

Today I asked my deacon ( a liberal) why is there so much animosity and fear of the potential Tridentine universal indult. His response was hook line and sinker for what I was baiting him for. He said “because we don’t want to return to all of the old baggage that comes with it, mainly the outdated morals that reflect the time of the “old” liturgy”.

That is my opinion on why there is such opposition by some, the simple fact is many have been conned into thinking that somhow since VII morals have been loosened and allowing the return of The “old mass” will cause people think that theolgy will change with it…WHich in fact morals and faith did not change at all. It was just the murky presence of the “spirit of Vatican II” that clouded peoples understanding. Vatican II was indeed a very good thing…but Satan grabbed ahold of it and twisted it into somthing that it was not… somehow the “spirit of Vatican II” was used to hijack moral teaching. I for one would like a more vertical liturgy. I am getting more and more aware that our current liturgy often times feels like a clap happy communal convergence that pushes god to second over “us” and “we”.

You might want to ask John Kerry and ‘Catholics For Choice’ and the 80% of Catholics who use artificial contraception and sterilization.

It’s not that morals have changed, it’s just that the church hierarchy, down to the parish priest, has abdicated teaching against these politically incorrect issues. Wouldn’t want people to get mad and not come to church…
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Funny thing is, in many places, they don’t come anyway…no matter what you preach or don’t preach.

Holland? France? England? Belgium? Where’s the Novus Ordo attendance?

Correct-Morals have not changed. The abuses we see are not the result of Vatican II or chaning the way we say mass-the abuses come from those who used Vatican II as an excuse try and force moral relatavism on the Church.
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Today I asked my deacon ( a liberal) why is there so much animosity and fear of the potential Tridentine universal indult. His response was hook line and sinker for what I was baiting him for. He said “because we don’t want to return to all of the old baggage that comes with it, mainly the outdated morals that reflect the time of the “old” liturgy”.

That is exactly why we need to encourage the Mass according to the '62 MR and whip the Novus Ordo into shape along the lines of how Mass (and Divine Liturgy for that matter) has been celebrated all along.

Mass has often become protestantized, not by Vatican II but by individual parishes, liberal bishops, etc. and we see the double edge of “lex orandi, lex credendi”. When we quit praying like Catholics, we quit acting like Catholics.

I agree, morally nothing has changed. Tell that to all the supposedly Catholic liturgists, theologians, canonists, etc. that embraced the “anything goes” concept of Canon Law, of Liturgical rubrics, etc. I’ve been reading various Modernist (I call 'em like I see 'em…:frowning: ) books about how we should celebrate Mass in the “Spirit of Vatican II” and why we need to read Canon Law in the “Spirit of Vatican II” and all sorts of other rubish. It is frightening to see the extent of how this nonsense has influenced people in the Church. Not outrightly heretical enough to outrightly condemn yet plenty of error to go around.

What I hope is gained (May God grant it) from increased use of the 62 MR is a more sober influence on the NO. The rubrics need to be tightened up, Modernist condemnations of “rubricism” and “rigidity” be damned.

Thank you for that wonderful post ComradeAndrei! What you say is exactly what we need. You put it so eloquently.

Ditto

I’m wondering why you would “bait” someone (and seemingly be proud of doing so). Where’s the Christian love?

How else are you gonna catch a liberal if you don’t use bait? They’re pretty slippery.

Define what a liberal is. I’m curious to know your definition. :smiley:

I am curious as to what “morals” the Church threw out after Vatian II.


The Church has never thrown away morals after Vatican II but many members of the Church (you and me) began picking and choosing which sins we would decide were and weren’t!
This led to the cafeteria which had to be closed!!

I think your Deacon has a higher opinion of traditionalists than a French Bishop.

“We will not be able to accept the division of our communities according to individual liturgical sensitivities and tastes”.

Traditionalist priests, the leaders of this movement, are using the Latin mass as a standard-bearer for a conception of the world and of mankind which is the opposite of the spirit of the conciliar constitution “On the Church in the Modern World” Gaudium et Spes]. The violence and arrogance of the leaders of this movement are not compatible with the values of the
Gospel of the Beatitudes.

Marcel Herriot
Bishop of Soissons, Laon, and Saint-Quentin.

rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2006/11/we-will-not-be-able-to-accept.html

I love the Catholic Answers Forums.
It is here that everyone agrees with me about the evilness of the Spirit of Vatican II.
In the real world, I have no such luck.
In the real world, I am surrounded by family and friends who pull a shocked and disgusted face when I mention that I’d like to be a TLM priest.
People, when discussing religion, always hold themselves back when they are around me, for fear of being corrected by me, or offending me.

I don’t like it.
It is in threads like these that give me hope in that the Catholic Church as it should be, will prevail, and will outlive this horrible modernist relativism that is advocated my these liberal deacons, priests and bishops.
Let’s just pray that we never get a liberal pope…

Not everyone.

Go for it! Research the ICK and the FSSP. There are also one or two others. :slight_smile:

It will. Christ promised us. Although you have to be prepared that we need to get down to a mere remnant of True Catholics before He opens the flood gates.

If we do, it will, by the power of the Holy Ghost, be our own chastisement brought on by our own sins and excesses. We get the priests we deserve.

One thing that VII did do is remove a lot of the moral issues surrounding the rubrics of the Mass. In the old days, priests faced mortal sin at every turn in the Mass. I’ve heard stories of priests throwing up because they were so nervous about approaching the altar. These legalisms grew up out of a spirit of devotion. However, it can seriously affect an individual - especially one who is well-trained in his moral theology.

Now, there are still mortal sins a priests faces at Mass, but not quite as many. Canon law has made the Mass less of an obstacle course.

That having been said, I prefer the TLM.

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