I’ve been to Amsterdam. Making drugs legal does not make society safer.
Ya know, it was proven back in the 1970s, the CIA was directly involved in the drug trade, I just wonder if law enforcement is still not somehow involved and making money off it…this is the only thing logical, after all, it is clear to everyone how much of a failure the war on drugs has been over the decades…why else keep it going?
I think if we knew the truth about such things, our jaws would probably be on the ground in disbelief! LOL
Let’s just say you are closer to the truth than most people would care to know. After all it is big money. And don’t count out the military…having known someone who was in the military was a real eye opener.
If we really want to stop the drug traffic we could…and I mean in just about one week flat. I would have every single plane, bus, train, car searched entering this country from somewhere else. If illicit drugs were found on it, say pounds of MJ or Crack etc, that plane, train, bus , car would become the immediate property of the US. The drugs would be destroyed. Of course we have to figure out who put them on the said vehicle, and that person would be prosecuted.
I wish Pope Francis would make a statement on this in light of legal and legitimate marijuana operations in various places of the world. So many like myself don’t see it as a grave matter so long as one is not jeopardizing anyone by participating in “clandestine operations”, yet some still insist that it, for some reason or another, is still illegitimate.
If Pope Francis spoke on this I would have no choice but to accept his resolution on the matter.
Not everyone drinks liquor, you know. A lot of people just like to have a beer or two. Know what I mean?
Right there with you. In my life I doubt I have drank an entire 12 beers and I am soon to be 55. But if I want one I see no sin in it. I stay home and partake. One beer usually lasts me two days.
I choose to view cannabis as an intoxicant. The thoughts and behaviors produced by it can be very sinful and maybe for some people this is especially magnified.
I fear that crime associated with the distribution of MJ will not go down in CO. The thought was that only local farmers would grow and sell it is naive. There are also forms of street MJ that are laced with other drugs, such as PCP, acid, and meth. We just made it a lot harder for cops to bust the street MJ. Plus, did we really think legalizing it in CO would mean the drug runners and drug associated gangs would just say, “Oh well” and go home? Yeah, right. Check out what’s happened in CA. They simply moved their operations to CA instead of south of the border. It’s now much easier to grow their pot in state, federal, or even privately owned lands. They use threats and intimidation to get rid of the competition and, because of the laws, they are now harder to catch. CO will be even easier to move in and eventually control a large portion of the trade. There is nothing good that comes from making a highly addictive substance legal. Alcohol is hard enough to control, as has been mentioned. It was only because it went from legal to illegal to legal again that it did not have deeply entrenched illegal activities, except during Prohibition (which was a bad idea). Now, we take something that has ALWAYS been controlled by bad guys, make it legal, and roll out the red carpet for these guys to come on in our country and take over the legal trade.
I can’t agree entirely. I think that most people who use just MJ will find relief in the idea that there is a way to purchase the drug without trying to connect with a dealer. And in countries were many drugs were decriminalized there was an immediate drop in violent crimes like robbery, assault and murder for this reason.
I would much rather have identifiable shops selling the stuff than people roaming around looking for pushers. As for gangs, yes they are a big part of drug traffic, but again I think some of their grip on a community could be lessened with people having the option of going to a pharmacy instead of dealing with them. And as far as gangs go I see no excuse for them to have gained so much power.
We had a friend who’s son was shot and killed in a drive-by. He was in his own garage playing pool with his brothers and dad. The drive-by was for an initiation. Now here is my feelings about that, and I know people will probably not like it, but honestly it is how I feel.
Since the authorities know what gang was responsible, and probably have a list of all its members via arrests and past troubles: pick them all up for suspicion of first degree murder. After all the idea of initiation seems to be proving yourself worthy to the group which in my book means everyone knew it was going to happen. Pick them all up and charge them as accessories to murder.
If I was a parent my kid would not be in a gang if I had to sell all I had and go live in the middle of the desert in a cave with them. This gang stuff just gets my nerves.
When I was a Catholic, I always figured that the same moral rules regarding alcohol applied to every drug, albeit modified for each substance.
If alcohol were illegal, it would be immoral to use it outside of Mass, because to do otherwise would thwart the law of that region. But it is not currently illegal for adults in most regions. So the main issues with its use are its moral dangers of temporary abuse (drunkenness) and the physical risk you might put yourself or others in (drunken behavior, addiction, and physical/mental health issues).
The same ought to apply to mj in a region where it is legal. It should be immoral to use it in an immoderate manner, and there are physical dangers associated with it- some of them greater than those of alcohol, some lesser. Ultimately, I see nothing in Catholic moral theology to say a legal drug that is not alcohol is immoral, unless used immoderately or with too much risk.
There may be other factors if you believe Colorado and other states will be hurt by too many people buying mj, but then the objections become political and not theological.
Woe, slow down with that one! Jesus made wine for celebration and even after they had drank much, he brought out the better stuff. Many times in the Old Testament we are told that “God gives wine to make glad the heart of man.” It is always excess that is condemned in the scriptures like “Drinking wine UNTIL IT INFLAMES THEM.” (emphasis mine).
Personally, studying the use of weed and it being outlawed doesn’t make it wrong. Honestly, more violent crimes are committed by people on alcohol than all other drugs combined. That is a staggering statistic. It is like eating. Eating is good, but too much eating leads to high blood pressure, diabetes and other ailments. No one would ever think of outlawing food. As far as pain pills and anti-depressants, there are times when they are sorely needed. It is when they are taken for recreation or abusively that it crosses the line.
This is not a simple subject and must be carefully considered…
There are also forms of street MJ that are laced with other drugs, such as PCP, acid, and meth.
Haha I’m sorry but that made me laugh. This does not make sense either financially, chemically, or marketing wise (i.e. pot laced with meth will not sell, different buzz).
This question greatly interests me. I quit a daily habit back in May when I was becoming more serious about entering the Church. I’m in RCIA right now. A lot of the information I read was coming from people who had views similar to Lutheran Farmer. They are hard to trust or understand though because they don’t line up with my experiences, at all.
There are people here who say we shouldn’t use mind altering substances but what about caffeine? Many people might scoff at this as some pot head trying to justify his ways. For myself though I become more “messed up” off of two cups of coffee than I did when smoking. When I smoked I was productive and I never had issues with friends or family. Even since I’ve quit I haven’t noticed much of a difference, except in social matters.
That said though, cannabis certainly isn’t for everyone. I’m also reminded by St. Paul of the responsibility we have with our freedom in 1 Cor 10:23-33
23 All things are lawful; but not all things are expedient. All things are lawful; but not all things edify.
24 Let no man seek his own, but each his neighbor’s good.
25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, eat, asking no question for conscience’ sake,
26 for the earth is the Lord’s, and the fulness thereof.
27 If one of them that believe not biddeth you to a feast, and ye are disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience’ sake.
28 But if any man say unto you, This hath been offered in sacrifice, eat not, for his sake that showed it, and for conscience sake:
29 conscience, I say, not thine own, but the other’s; for why is my liberty judged by another conscience?
30 If I partake with thankfulness, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?
31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.s
32 Give no occasions of stumbling, either to Jews, or to Greeks, or to the church of God:
33 even as I also please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of the many, that they may be saved.
Personally I don’t think cannabis use it intrinsically evil. In another place and another time it may not have been such a big deal. But the way things are now it’s far from being non-controversial, hence this thread. I think it’s best to sacrifice and err on the side of caution. I know I’m not looking for any millstone necklaces.
I think this is the answer so far that most mirrors my own thought, but then I am a big fan of Pauline liberty and responsibility. I am getting up in age, yet if it becomes legal, and there remains no moral prohibition against it, I will probably give it a shot once. If the Church, my bishop or priest say no, then I won’t.
Well, if they REALLY wanted to stop the drug trade entirely, think about it, I have a feeling those in US intel know exactly where the major drug cartels headquarters are, they probably know where the poppy and coca fields are too, I doubt it would be difficult for US military to completely destroy these places/people. They could accomplish this with less than 1000 troops…but as of today, they have not done this, and it seems like they will continue on business as usual.
I find it funny (and strange) that in todays world of all our technology, the drug cartels are able to consistently get larger and larger loads of their product into our country, bypassing all the border checks and screenings…how is this possible, without some kind of collusion?
People who are under the influence are not the best judge of what their behavior is like. Marijuana distorts perception, impairs coordination, interferes with the ability to think and problem solve, and permanently impairs the areas of the brain used in learning and memory. There are numerous studies listed on the National Institute on Drug Abuse website that have determined permanent physical and mental health issues resulting from the use of marijuana. This is why marijuana use is evil. It damages the body God created for us and hinders the ability to use the free will that God gave us.
As for caffeine, the effects are usually not permanent. If you can tell that coffee “messes” you up, than don’t drink it.
God gave us these magnificent creations called the body and free will, we shouldn’t abuse them.
I would like to read your sources for this statement. What studies have been done that support what you say or this just a personal feeling that you have? I am curious to read about this because I have never heard this before.
The War on Drugs is a failure because Presidents Clinton and Obama admitted to smoking pot. The classic retort for most teens now is that the Presidents did it.
Marijuana is a gateway drug. Most users start with marijuana and move up to the big stuff later. (This is what the DARE officer at my son’s school says.)
When something is decriminalized it sends a message to the youth that there’s nothing wrong with do it.
Marijuana causes respiratory illnesses and lung cancer. It permanently damages the area of the brain used in learning and memory. (NIDA website) It increases the risk of a heart attack 4.8 fold. It can lead to obesity and causes lack of motivation. It increases the risk of depression and suicidal ideation. It impairs judgement and motor function, making users twice as likely to end up in a car accident. A list of studies can be found on the National Institute on Drug Abuse website.
This is not what God intended us to do with the bodies he gave us.
Nightshade and hemlock are also plants that God put on our planet, but just like marijuana, he did not intend us to ingest them. The original use for the hemp plant was to make rope.
The marijuana plant has been bred and crossbred to produce more THC. According to the studies listed on the National Institute on Drugs website, the marijuana that is currently produced has a 15% THC level, as opposed to the 4% level it had in the 1980s.
This thread is about the morality of making pot legal and smoking it. There is nothing good about permanently impairing one’s memory and ability to learn.
My behavior was being monitored and judged by other people (namely my wife and my boss) and external marks. One of my favorite activities to do while under the influence was to go to the skating rink and skate for 2.5 hours straight. Great exercise. I got my doctors recommendation for cannabis for ADHD which had been independently diagnosed. Cannabis did alter my thinking but in a way that was often helpful, as my wife and boss can attest. The cannabis experience is gradational. If you take one or two hits it is not the same as smoking a whole joint or a few hits from a water pipe. Frankly I don’t trust the methodologies of the studies you mentioned.
All this said I do agree that there are good reasons for quitting, which I have done. I just wish there was a more balanced view on the topic.
My sources are not first hand but every family member of mine has struggled with drugs (some still do) and I worked for the police in northern California for several years (but it was awhile ago). I might be wrong about meth in pot, but there sure were some weird reactions of the some people arrested under the influence of pot. I know PCP or acid was in some of the pot that was seized and tested. It was more common in specific areas of California. Now, with all the relatives I have in CA, I hear about how the Mexican drug lords have moved right in and made themselves at home.