More men 'have oral cancer virus'

If you are free of HPV, if your spouse is free of HPV, and if you only French kiss each other, you will both be safe. The problem is, many people have multiple (6 to 10, sometimes more) French kissing partners in a lifetime, sometimes even in a single year. If you only French kiss one person, but that person has had multiple partners previously, you are still at risk. That person may have been infected with a carcinogenic strain of HPV, from one of his/her previous partners.

I agree. But then my point illustrates that disregarding these old fashioned religious points led us to this.

The Church does not oppose multiple sexual partners because monogamy has a lower risk of infection. So the posting of this sort of thing is irrelevant to catholic teaching. Oral sex beween people who have been tested for infection and proved negative, or who use barriers is also oppose by the Church.

I imagine that people who attend crowded churches also have higher rates of influenza transmission, especially in the third world, and in Catholic services attended by many children.

The Church opposes multiple partner sex because it’s against natural law. Sex is not for fun but for procreation in the context of a couple who will commit, love and care for the child and each other. There would be NO infection if everyone or almost everyone followed natural law and the Church teachings. HIV for example would never have evolved to spread sexually from the initial infections of man in those remote African villages where people slaughtered chimpanzees and became infected from their blood. These people then instead of infecting only their wives and stopping the infection there infected many more people and spread the disease. Increasing urbanisation and ease of transport increased this further, but people in monogamous relationships would at best infect only one person and no-one else. Each case of HIV would be a dead end for the HIV.

So the posting of this sort of thing is irrelevant to catholic teaching. Oral sex beween people who have been tested for infection and proved negative, or who use barriers is also oppose by the Church.

It is not irrelevant. In fact it is most relevant. Casual sex has created an evolutionary and ecological niche for the spread of infectious particles because people just can’t keep it in their pants and casual sex is considered moral as long as it is consensual. Listening to the Church teaching would have avoided creating that niche or eliminated it when it was present from previous times.

I imagine that people who attend crowded churches also have higher rates of influenza transmission, especially in the third world, and in Catholic services attended by many children.

Irrelevant because crowded attendance can happen just as much with secular functions. Influenza et al. are also usually not as deadly and can be contracted at the post office, government office, shopping mall and one’s regular secular humanist meeting.

Besides one can increase ventilation and sunshine and reduce risk of pathogen spread tremendously. UV light from the sun and fresh air either inactivates infectious particles or disperses them to such a degree that they’re no longer infectious. Hand washing also cuts down on transmission. The Church also does not command people not celebrate open masses or not ventilate the church premises or wash hands after shaking them with others after mass before eating.

Remember sexually transmitted diseases such as ano-rectal carcinoma, cervical carcinoma, vaginal carcinoma, HIV/AIDS, pelvic inflammatory disease, syphilis and so on are diseases of lifestyle. It should be said that there are other lifestyle diseases such as diabetes, hypertension, coronary heart disease, stroke, gout, osteoarthritis, elevated cholesterol levels, different types of cancer, etc. could also be avoided in many cases with a more rigorous approach to Christian teachings.

Really? Against natural law? So the Bible in Deuteronomy 17:17 and Exodus 20:10, which regulate, but also support, polygamy, is advocating a breach of natural law? Do you have a reference which agrees with your assertion?

Quite a few. A couple atheists believe in that too.

These problems would not exist if the majority of people listened to Christian teachings.

It wouldn’t exist if people listened to health advice either.

And belive it or not there were Nazis who liked Jews too - Oscar Schindler was one. There are always a few outliers, but they’re inconsistent with their doctrine. Buddhism, Hinduism, Shinto etc don’t forbid pre-marital sex and even unnatural forms of sex. Even in Islam you can have more than one wife, and you can divorce a woman easily.

It wouldn’t exist if people listened to health advice either.

Actually the health advice had to change. As I told you, health providers used to use the term “safe sex” until they realised it was not, hence “safer sex” is now used. Health guidelines don’t teach against oral sex or anal sex. Some guidelines mention A (Abstinence) with the BC and some guidelines do away with A entirely. Only the fear of HIV/AIDS has kept a large number of people from less safe sex practices but now that’s reversing because there is now effective, yet pretty toxic treatment for HIV/AIDS. And also do note that health guidelines only started to appear in the late 19th century but the Church has taught this sexual morality ethic for 2000 years. We would not have hundreds of millions of dead and suffering people in those last 2000 years if people actually tried harder. We would also not have HIV, Syphilis, HPV etc now.

Are you suggesting the Church preaches polygamy? If so where? I did not posit anything about polygamy in my post but about sex outside of marriage. Multiple partner sex is understood so in terms of this discussion - as someone who serially or concurrently has more than one sex partner (not as an orgy either). You either failed to appreciate this point (you associate “partner” with spouse, partner in this context is sex partner alone) or you decided to post that red herring on purpose. But please tell me where does the Church advocate polygamous marriage? Is there a loophole I can use to marry two women in the Catholic Church?

Go to the Wikipedia article below. An excerpt:

Catholic teachings on sexual morality draw from natural law, Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition and are promulgated authoritatively by the Magisterium. Sexual morality evaluates the goodness of sexual behavior, and often provides general principles by which Catholics are able to evaluate the morality of specific actions.

The Catholic Church teaches that human life and human sexuality are both inseparable and sacred.[1] Because Catholics believe God created human beings in his own image and likeness and that he found everything he created to be “very good,”[2] the Catholic Church teaches that human body and sex must likewise be good. The Catechism teaches that “the flesh is the hinge of salvation.”[3] The Church considers the expression of love between husband and wife to be an elevated form of human activity, joining as it does, husband and wife in complete mutual self-giving, and opening their relationship to new life. “The sexual activity, in which husband and wife are intimately and chastely united with one another, through which human life is transmitted, is, as the recent Council recalled, ‘noble and worthy.’”[4] It is in cases in which sexual expression is sought outside sacramental marriage, or in which the procreative function of sexual expression within marriage is deliberately frustrated, that the Catholic Church expresses grave moral concern.

However the Church does teach that sexual intercourse outside of marriage is contrary to its purpose. The “conjugal act” aims at a deeply personal unity, a unity that, beyond union in one flesh, leads to forming one heart and soul"[5] since the marriage bond is to be a sign of the love between God and humanity.[6]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_teachings_on_sexual_morality

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hokomai forums.catholic.com/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
*Really? Against natural law? So the Bible in Deuteronomy 17:17 and Exodus 20:10, which regulate, but also support, polygamy, is advocating a breach of natural law? Do you have a reference which agrees with your assertion?

tenofir

Are you suggesting the Church preaches polygamy? If so where? I did not posit anything about polygamy in my post but about sex outside of marriage. Multiple partner sex is understood so in terms of this discussion - as someone who serially or concurrently has more than one sex partner (not as an orgy either). You either failed to appreciate this point (you associate “partner” with spouse, partner in this context is sex partner alone) or you decided to post that red herring on purpose. But please tell me where does the Church advocate polygamous marriage? Is there a loophole I can use to marry two women in the Catholic Church?

*The Old Testament supports polygamy. Polygamy is a subset of the group ‘multiple sex partners’. 'Spouse is a subset of the group ‘sex partners’. If having multiple sex partners is against the natural law, then so is polygamy. Therefore the Old Testament supports something in breach of natural law.

“He must not take many wives, or his heart will be led astray. He must not accumulate large amounts of silver and gold.” - Deuteronomy, 17:17, forbidding a king to enter polygamous marriage

“but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates.” - Exodus 20:10, sabbath prohibitions and no reference to marriage whatsoever.

There are references to important people with multiple wives in the Old Testament, but it is never supports polygamy. Proper marriage is clearly defined as being between one man and one woman in the first chapters of Genesis:

“For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.” - Genesis 2:24

Cases of polygamy in the Bible are addressed historically, never given moral support from God. Quite the opposite. Several important figures are permitted to persist in these sins, in the same way we are permitted to persist in our own. But nowhere in the Bible does God ever condone it.

Then we probably shouldn’t be drinking after other people…

:frowning: No more sipping from a spouse’s can of soda when they aren’t looking if they’ve kissed someone before they married you.

I think its a stretch to say that the Judeo-Christian religions invented monogomy. It existed before and in cultures which knew neither.

I guess that depends on your take on Genesis, and God’s covenant with Adam. The Catechism states that the account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man.

So…I guess this means science also confirms Judaism, Mormanism, Islam, etc? I think those religions–and more–teach monogamy, too?

I don’t think Islam teaches monogamy- four wives and temporary divorce. You could have as many partners as you want.

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