More Protestant distortions about the Catholic sainthood process


#1

This site highlights what little some Protestants know about the Catholic sainthood process, and about Catholicism in general.

angelfire.com/ky/dodone/Become.html

Why is it that some of them have this notion that Catholics have to be “canonized” by their Magisterium for them to even make it to Heaven?

As much as this saddens me to keep seeing stuff like this, it doesn’t really suprise me anymore. I just add it to the extra long laundry list of misconceptions they already have about the Catholic faith.

God Bless


#2

[quote=Catholic29]This site highlights what little some Protestants know about the Catholic sainthood process, and about Catholicism in general.

angelfire.com/ky/dodone/Become.html

Why is it that some of them have this notion that Catholics have to be “canonized” by their Magisterium for them to even make it to Heaven?

As much as this saddens me to keep seeing stuff like this, it doesn’t really suprise me anymore. I just add it to the extra long laundry list of misconceptions they already have about the Catholic faith.

God Bless
[/quote]

Because telling the truth about the Catholic Church doesn’t sell ad space. It’s all about money you know. Fabricating stories to play on people’s fears and suspicions sells much more than the Truth does.


#3

i have yet to see an official looking anti-catholic website. all of them seem to have no navigation bar, just plain words on a plain background, no sources listed, ect.


#4

[quote=Catholic29]This site highlights what little some Protestants know about the Catholic sainthood process, and about Catholicism in general.

angelfire.com/ky/dodone/Become.html

Why is it that some of them have this notion that Catholics have to be “canonized” by their Magisterium for them to even make it to Heaven?
[/quote]

Why do Catholics so often misrepresent Protestant ecclesiology ?

Or the meaning of “Sola Scriptura” ?

Or Luther’s attitude to the Letter of James ?

Or anything else not self-evidently Catholic?

For much the same reasons, probably - ignorance, human frailty, unconscious bias, lack of insight into a religion not their own, and so forth. ##

As much as this saddens me to keep seeing stuff like this, it doesn’t really suprise me anymore. I just add it to the extra long laundry list of misconceptions they already have about the Catholic faith.

God Bless


#5

Your right, there are Catholics who misrepresent some of Protestant ecclesiology. Not all of Protestants have the same interpretation of Sola Scriptura, or Sola Fide.

There is no universal understanding of the Protestant position as it does have many versions. That is why there it is so easy to misrepresent it or categorize it all as somehow off.

I do understand how you can feel frustrated by caricatures of the Protestant position and we all should have respect for each others postion. It shames me to see Catholics ridiculing Protestants in their position, and coming from a position outside the Church then coming back to it I feel I have a better appreciation for Protestants. They are our separated bretheren.

On the other hand, many attacks about the Catholic Church use misinformation, and misrepresentation to make a point, with no effort used to find out what the actual Catholic position is.

It is a completely different situation as it is easy to find out what the official Catholic position is. When I was outside the Church anyone who I knew outside the Church wouldn’t touch anything “Catholic”, read or check to see what was the official position of the Church. I struggle with this all the time as people like to inform me what the Catholic Church teaches, direct from Dave Hunt.

Where is the official Protestant position, any Protestants position can be contested by a different one from a different Protestant faith tradition.

We should all be concerned with what is the truth and be willing to follow that truth anywhere.

Or maybe you are just stating an unbiased view on things, in which case I state my post as addressed to the Protestant position.


#6

I e-mailed the man who runs the site inviting to come here for discussion and to read up on our beautiful faith. I hope he responds and is able to come here. Even if he disagrees with us, he at least should tell the truth about what we believe.


#7

I find it interesting that the article that is supposed to prove I know little about saint-making in the Catholic Church is almost entirely verbatim quotes from a newspaper and corresponding rermarks from priests.

You ought to contact these priests and tell them how little they know.


#8

Mr. Jackson,
There is nothing wrong with the comments you quoted from priests. They are just talking about the process of recognizing someone as a saint. That is different from a person actually becoming a saint, as you show that you understand by your words below: "I realize, of course, that the process of canonization is actually the recognizing of the sainthood of a person by the Catholic Church, which does believe there are people in Heaven that are not officially canonized. But in popular Roman Catholic jargon, canonization is thought of as “the making of a saint.”"
I don’t know any Catholics who think of canonization as “making a saint.” Catholics know that every person who dies redeemed by Christ’s blood becomes a saint. The church is just interested in being able to officially state that they are in heaven.


#9

I realize, of course, that the process of canonization is actually the recognizing of the sainthood of a person by the Catholic Church, which does believe there are people in Heaven that are not officially canonized. But in popular Roman Catholic jargon, canonization is thought of as “the making of a saint.”

“The making of a saint” is the expression used in the article.


#10

[quote=Bill Jackson]I realize, of course, that the process of canonization is actually the recognizing of the sainthood of a person by the Catholic Church, which does believe there are people in Heaven that are not officially canonized. But in popular Roman Catholic jargon, canonization is thought of as “the making of a saint.”

“The making of a saint” is the expression used in the article.
[/quote]

Hello Bill,

How wonderful that you actually come to our site. It shows that you are open to correcting any accidental mistakes in your article. As far as articles go, haven’t you noticed that the media isn’t exactly knowledgable about Christianity in general? I understand that it is a bit frustrating.


#11

Bill,

Thanks for coming. I guess a good question to ask would be: what Catholic faith are you trying to have a dialogue with or “reach out to”? Is it the true faith, whose docrines are enumerated and clearly expressed and explained in several places, such as the Cathechism of the Catholic Church (I highly recommend a copy if you don’t have one, it will make discussions with Catholics easier) or the Catholic Answers website? Or is it the misconstrued image of the Church that many seem to have, but those of us who are serious about practicing our faith are quite annoyed by? If the first one, then please clearly distinguish in your articles what Catholics officially believe and what some think we believe. I admit that it is a sad thing when you get false information about our beliefs from priests, if that has ever been the case in your work, but it is not that difficult to double check what most of them say. If, however, you are trying to argue against the false image of the Catholic Church and say that it is the real Church, I believe you know that that is the straw man fallacy and is quite uncharacteristic of what honest, Christian dialogue should be.


#12

[quote=Bill Jackson]I realize, of course, that the process of canonization is actually the recognizing of the sainthood of a person by the Catholic Church, which does believe there are people in Heaven that are not officially canonized. But in popular Roman Catholic jargon, canonization is thought of as “the making of a saint.”

“The making of a saint” is the expression used in the article.
[/quote]

One would expect someone of your experience to speak up for the truth and not dilute your credibility by trading on something so dubious as “popular jargon.”


#13

For authoritative (not infallible) sources I use and regularly quote The Catechism, OSV’s Catholic Enclyclopedia, the 1912 Catholic Encyclopedia, Radio Replies, The Catholic Almanac, Karl Keating’s book and article and Jim Drummey’s Catholic Replies 2.

I don’t expect any Catholic to admit it, but many Catholics have a concept of what they would like Catholicism to be, and to them that IS Catholicism. Instances of this can be seen in the fracturing of Romanism: Conservative, Traditional, Nominal, Ethnic, Charismatic, etc.

My website addresses all of these, but you will find (except for a few quotes from Richard McBrien) authoritative sources are quoted.

If you want to discuss doctrine with me, that well be fine. I do not take kindly to your assertions that I am unfairly presenting Romanism. Even Richard McBrien has a following (probably as large as Karl Keatings) that thinks the Catholicism he presents is correct. Notre Dame is a hotbed of liberalism.


#14

[quote=Bill Jackson]For authoritative (not infallible) sources I use and regularly quote The Catechism, OSV’s Catholic Enclyclopedia, the 1912 Catholic Encyclopedia, Radio Replies, The Catholic Almanac, Karl Keating’s book and article and Jim Drummey’s Catholic Replies 2.

I don’t expect any Catholic to admit it, but many Catholics have a concept of what they would like Catholicism to be, and to them that IS Catholicism. Instances of this can be seen in the fracturing of Romanism: Conservative, Traditional, Nominal, Ethnic, Charismatic, etc.

My website addresses all of these, but you will find (except for a few quotes from Richard McBrien) authoritative sources are quoted.

If you want to discuss doctrine with me, that well be fine. I do not take kindly to your assertions that I am unfairly presenting Romanism. Even Richard McBrien has a following (probably as large as Karl Keatings) that thinks the Catholicism he presents is correct. Notre Dame is a hotbed of liberalism.
[/quote]

Bill,
Why do you keep calling Catholicism “Romanism”? God bless you!

my Mother my Confidence,
Corinne


#15

Calling Caholicism “Romanism” is probably a hangover from my ministry in Ireland and UK, where the Anglican Church likes to be called “Catholic” and in dealing with some, the difference has to be pronouced.

I don’t do it as much as I used to do, and certainly don’t mean to offend anyone.


#16

As soon as I saw the article was on “Angelfire” I knew it was trash. Anyone can post there with impunity. Notice how they wrote Father Baker as “father” Baker. Pay little attention to such garbage.


#17

The Buffalo News has nothing to do with Angelfire. They mentioned Msgr. Baker’s name two times, and in all of them have a capital “F”

What did you read? I’m surprised at this coming from a group which, although I do not believe they are right, are usually fair.


#18

[quote=Bill Jackson]Calling Caholicism “Romanism” is probably a hangover from my ministry in Ireland and UK, where the Anglican Church likes to be called “Catholic” and in dealing with some, the difference has to be pronouced.

I don’t do it as much as I used to do, and certainly don’t mean to offend anyone.
[/quote]

Welcome Bill Jackson; we hope you stick around to discourse awhile. This entire thread is very interesting, and we appreciate you joining in.

I’m not going to throw my opinions at you, however, since I’m not really that familiar with your site or your beliefs.

I am Catholic and seriously looked at nonCatholic Christianity for awhile out of respect to family members’ requests. However, I could not in good faith leave the Catholic Church; there was nothing in all my official Catholic readings which I could dispute.


#19

Bill Jackson, I do have a curiousity question not an attacking question. What compelled you to begin your ministry to evangelize Catholics, how long have you been in this ministry, and how well do you think you are doing?


#20

[quote=Bill Jackson]The Buffalo News has nothing to do with Angelfire. They mentioned Msgr. Baker’s name two times, and in all of them have a capital “F”

What did you read? I’m surprised at this coming from a group which, although I do not believe they are right, are usually fair.
[/quote]

I believe he read your commentary at the end of the article, which this morning had Father Baker written as “father” Baker. You obviously have changed the small “f” to a capital “F”, but the title is indeed in quotes. How disengenuous to pretend not to know what the poster was referring to.


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