More signs of demonic origin of a religion, cult, or spiritual movement

Previous thread: forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=311025&highlight=cult

  1. Your leader makes Christ-like claims (God Incarnate, Second Coming, able to turn water into wine, able to exorcise, will redeem the world by his death, etc.)

  2. Your leader says Jesus resembles him in appearance (body and/or clothing)

  3. Your leader claims to be related to Jesus (brother, son, father, friend, partner, etc.)

  4. Your leader says Jesus is inferior to him (either as a priest, prophet, or king)

  5. Your leader says Jesus is only a human being (and not God and man)

  6. Your leader says Jesus is just a prophet (and not the Jewish messiah)

  7. Your leader says he is Jesus (reincarnated, resurrected, or returned)

  8. Your leader says Jesus is your faith’s prophet (even to the point of making claims of the Great Apostosy and/or putting words in Jesus’ mouth that justify the faith’s beliefs)

Euchristed, what is your take on the Angel Moroni? Not to surprise you or set you up for a loaded question I want to ask you some questions about Mary. Is that ok with you?

I just don’t like to set people up or load questions.

Peace be with you…

Is the question going to be “Do you believe Moroni is a real angel or not?” followed by “Than why do you believe in Marian apparitions”?

I really want to know what would be your qualifier/disqualify-er for this apparition and contrast those qualifications for the Marian belief.

Like I said, I didn’t want to set you up. You don’t have to answer if you want.

Catholics don’t have qualifiers for apparitions. We aren’t personal interpreters of revelations, just as we aren’t personal interpreters of Scriptures. Rather, just as Christ followed the Father, so too we follow Him by following His Body the Church. The Church has norms for discerning apparitions, which you can read here: theotokos.org.uk/pages/appdisce/cdftexte.html

For my take on an apparition that has not yet been judged by the Church, check out this site: medjugorjeapparition.webs.com/

You really only need 2 of those, and you can place christianity at the top of that demonic list:

  1. Your leader makes Christ-like claims (God Incarnate, Second Coming, able to turn water into wine, able to exorcise, will redeem the world by his death, etc.)

  2. Your leader claims to be related to a god (brother,** son**, father, friend, partner, etc.)

Can the qualifiers of apparitions of Rome be erroneous? So what I’m saying is that if a Pope sends a special envoy to investigate let’s say the apparitions in Medjugore, what if the their findings are wrong? Does that error trickle down to you?

Ah, that is the difference between man and the whole Church. Man is fallible, the Church is not. The Church is the Body of Christ, and since Christ is God and Man, the Church is Divine and Human, Invisible and Visible. God cannot error, so neither can the Church. Just as the Holy Spirit led Jesus, so too dose He lead the Church; He leads the Church into all truths. Because God cannot deceive nor be deceived, being the Truth Itself, the Church cannot deceive nor be deceived. She is infallible, but she is not equal to Him in Knowledge and Wisdom - which is why He leads her (however, Jesus is equal to God, being God Incarnate). Hence, while man can make a mistake or do wrong, the Church can do neither, so, if the envoy was wrong, the whole Church would not; in other words, God would order the investigation in such a manner that the Church would not error on faith or morals (though she can still error in other ways, since she is not just divine but human, and we humans are fallible). I would also like to note that the whole Church isn’t on Earth but is on Earth, in Purgatory, and in Heaven; the whole Church is the Church Militant, Suffering, and Triumphant. Christ is the Invisible Head of the Church, and the Pope, in as far as he is the Vicar of Christ on Earth, is the Visible Head of the Church. Just as the King of Israel was God’s vicar, so too is the Pope God’s vicar. The Church is not double-headed but single-headed, for there is only one Christ, only one Meditator between God and man.

To give an example of how God works in His Church: the revelations given to Saint Faustina were initally rejected by the Vatican because it had received a poor translation of her diary; it wasn’t the real diary but a fake one sent to them. The Vatican found out, got a real translation of the diary eventually, and judged the revelations, and approved of them.

The same could happen to Medjugorje.

Fair enough. Although I don’t subscribe to the CC’s belief system in the matter of the spiritual entity that is Mary, It is nice to see earnestly that the Church strives to take an objectionable posture by default to visions and so on.

Be well my friend.

Mary is a human person, not a spirit. She has a body, blood, and soul. And she is not a spirit in Heaven, she was assumed entirely into Heaven, meaning she has her body with her in Heaven. So she is still a human person in Heaven, with her body, blood, and soul glorified, i.e., just as we will share in Jesus’ resurrection since the resurrection of the dead, so she shares in His Resurrection since the end of her life when He resurrected her and took her into Heaven.

Take care!

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.