More trouble between Ukraine and Russia


#21

Ukraine, when it became independent, and other countries were joining NATO, chose not to follow them, not join NATO. So it is not under our protection. It is too late now. Now nobody is going to help them. It is too bad. But that is the way it is. Because it is not in NATO, Putin was able to attack it without risking WWIII. And of course Putin is not going to risk WWIII, that could turn nuclear, risking the possibility of all humans on the earth being wiped out.


#22

Hasn’t NATO pledged support for Ukraine?

All it will take is 1 single NATO country to step in to fight for Ukraine, and that will draw in the rest of NATO, wouldn’t it?


#23

No, nato is a defensive pact. Not an offensive one. Unless a nato country is directly attacked unprovoked no other nation has an obligation.


#24

Aha.

So, for example then, Germany would have to go into Ukraine and attack Russia, then Russia would have to attack Germany on its own German soil to draw in the rest of NATO?

Would Russia hitting say Germany with a missile strike draw in the rest of NATO to attack Russia?


#26

@athanasiy I’m just guessing here, but are you a member of the newly created Orthodox Church of Ukraine under Metropolitan Epifaniy?

For what it’s worth, my full support lies with the Ecumenical Patriarch and the OCU.


#27

No if Germany struck before Russia, nato would have no obligation to back Germany in a fight they started.

If Germany is minding its own business and Russia lobs a missile in then nato is obligated.


#28

So basically Russia is free to molest Ukraine without worrying about serious intervention from the West…

Sad. Very sad. I think we’ll see a large scale bloody war in the near future where Russia massacres and annexes Ukraine, if that’s the case.


#29

That is my thought.

I don’t think anyone in the West has the stomach for a war with Russia.


#30

I wouldn’t be surprised if Russia has the war plans all drawn up, and is waiting for the spring thaw to attack.

If the situation continues to escalate, I’d expect a full scale Russian invasion in spring 2019.


#31

I guarantee they have plans drawn up.

The us has plans drawn up for all sorts of potential war scenarios, including wars with our own allies. Most modern nations with modern armies do.


#32

I keep my Christian beliefs with me. I study languages. I attend Roman Catholic church on Sundays in Polish, I sometimes come to the Romanian Protestant church, I go to service in the Greek Catholic Church, several times I visited the monastery of the Moscow Patriarchate.
I live on the West of the country on Romanian border, some Moscow Patriarchate Churches officially announce transition to Ukrainian Orthodox Church.
No fights, no wars here.
May be on the East more emotions but definitely nothing like shooting or blood.


#33

I served a few years in the US Military, but I was never more than a junior enlisted man. So the intricacies of diplomacy and war plans, etc it’s all stuff I’m still learning.

Interesting times we live in.


#34

I wish Ukraine all the best.

I attend a Ukrainian Catholic parish often, and the people are so peace loving and devout.

It’s such a sad situation. :frowning:


#35

In monasteries and rural parishes of the Moscow Patriarchate, sometimes you can hear in the sermon of a priest warnings about the great risk of renouncing the right faith, and so on.
In fact, Muscophiles do not risk their lives for their beliefs.
I think that for many parishes, the process of transition in the UOC will take time, but gradually the UOC will increase in the number of parishes.


#36

#37

#44

You see if the UOC-Moscow Patriarchate will neglect the new law, the UOC-MP communities will not only lose the status of legal entities, but will be removed from the list of non-profit organizations. So they might be inforced to pay taxes.


#45

I can guarantee you no pretext will draw any western/central European country into a war to be fought on European territory.

Media can delude European voters about what’s happening outside their continent, but not about what’s happening inside of it. You can corrupt entire governments, but any threat of war inside of Europe would have any government being immediately dissolved and loosing its entire power base. And yes, diplomacy still works. The Moscow-Bruxels phone line doesn’t get interrupted because of some opinion poll pushing an apocalyptic narrative on the evening news. Like the Scandinavians and Eastern Europeans were really worried about a sporadic air space violation…Get real everybody.

You understand that every German currently alive is an anti-war pacifist freak?? That’s how they are educated.


#46

You’ve taken my quotes out of context. I do not believe there’s any threat of war with Russia.

But, NATO does have plans for a war with Russia, Russia has plans for a war with Europe and the US. I’m not saying those plans are going to be used, but modern armies are constantly war gaming to plan for unforeseen eventualities.

Germany was just an example of how the NATO agreement works. Not an assertion of something that is likely to happen.


#49

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