Mormon golden plates?


#1

I understand that the LDS church claims that the book of mormon was translated from “golden plates” by Joseph Smith in 1827 by the use of two stones called “** **Urim and Thummin”. My question is **where are these plates? **It seems to me that showing these plates off would help the LDS cause.


#2

It is my understanding that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints aka (mormons) believe that after the translation was completed the plates where taken back to heaven by the angel moroni. Leaving us with the testimonies of the 12 and 3 witnesses as the only eye witnesses to their existance.


#3

Here is what I can only assume is the standard Mormon answer

lightplanet.com/mormons/response/qa/plates_possession.htm

Summary:

An angel took them back to heaven, because

  1. If left on Earth they would take away man’s free will to believe
  2. They contained secret parts which we weren’t supposed to translate yet
  3. It was dangerous for Joseph Smith to have that much gold on him, so the angel took it out of his hands

Disclaimer: I’M NOT MORMON, JUST REPEATING WHAT I FOUND :slight_smile:


#4

That’s one whack-job of a story :slight_smile:

-Michael


#5

So first they were** buried** then translated then taken back to heaven…HMMMMMM make alot of sense. I can see how people can believe that. :whacky:


#6

In all charity, I think we all ought to consider that every church has within it things which are believed by faith - as one Franciscan friar put it to the pope :“our ancestors have told us and so we tell you”.

We do not have the Ten Commandment tablets; we cannot produce a photo of the Resurrection or the Ascension so it pays when discussing the faith beliefs of others to do so with respect and some charity not to mention understanding.

It would appear that as we examine any faith, there are things in it, we find different, strange, weird, or bizarre. These have a wide range from the mystical, to the mysterious, to the ludicrous but when on a public board, one ought to try and at least offer a modicum of civility so that those of that belief do not find us of such hard hearts that they are not free to explain their faith commitment among us.


#7

[quote=jaralenio]I understand that the LDS church claims that the book of mormon was translated from “golden plates” by Joseph Smith in 1827 by the use of two stones called “** **Urim and Thummin”. My question is **where are these plates? **It seems to me that showing these plates off would help the LDS cause.
[/quote]

You are using terms which come down to us from antiquity - these two items were kind of an oracle for the Jewish people specific to the High Priests of that faith. Somehow they allowed the High Priest to discern the will or message of God to His people - some believe them to be kind of “magic stones” which were placed on or attached to (as a pouch) his garment which then allowed him to receive God’s message or direction. Others speculate something else… from the Catholic Encylopaedia:

“And thou (Moses) shalt put in the rational of judgement doctrine and truth (Heb. the Urim and the Thummim), which shall be on Aaron’s breast when he shall go in before the Lord; and he shall bear the judgment of the children of Israel on his breast in the sight of the Lord always.” From this it appears that at least towards the close of the Exile, the Urim and Thummim were considered as something distinct from the ephod of the high priest and the gems with which it was adorned. It also shows that they were conceived of as material objects sufficiently small to be inserted in the “rational” or “pouch”, the main purpose of which seems to have been to receive them. In Leviticus, viii, 7-8 we read: “He (Moses) vested the high priest with the strait linen garment, girding him with the girdle, and putting on him the violet tunick, and over it he put the ephod, and binding it with the girdle, he fitted it to the rational, on which was doctrine and truth” (Heb. the Urim and the Thummim). Again in Numbers xxvii, 21: “If anything be to be done, Eleazar the priest shall consult the Lord for him” (Heb. “and he [Eleazar] shall invoke upon him the judgment of Urim before the Lord”). These passages add little to our knowledge of the nature an use of the oracle, except perhaps the importance attached to it as a means of the Divine communication in the post-Exilic period. "


#8

[quote=HagiaSophia]In all charity, I think we all ought to consider that every church has within it things which are believed by faith - as one Franciscan friar put it to the pope :“our ancestors have told us and so we tell you”.

We do not have the Ten Commandment tablets; we cannot produce a photo of the Resurrection or the Ascension so it pays when discussing the faith beliefs of others to do so with respect and some charity not to mention understanding.

It would appear that as we examine any faith, there are things in it, we find different, strange, weird, or bizarre. These have a wide range from the mystical, to the mysterious, to the ludicrous but when on a public board, one ought to try and at least offer a modicum of civility so that those of that belief do not find us of such hard hearts that they are not free to explain their faith commitment among us.
[/quote]

I may have lacked charity in my last comment but it stems from a recent discussion I had with two Mormon missionaries. Although there set of beliefs are bizarre they bluntly explained to me how the Catholic Church is not the True church and how the LDS church is. Understandably the missionaries have strong convictions as I do, so we kindly agreed to disagree. This “I’m okay your okay” attitude is not right, when a cult as the LDS church publicly denounces Christ’s church, her members “the Church Militant” must defend her, just as the early church fathers did.


#9

[quote=jaralenio]I may have lacked charity in my last comment but it stems from a recent discussion I had with two Mormon missionaries. Although there set of beliefs are bizarre they bluntly explained to me how the Catholic Church is not the True church and how the LDS church is. Understandably the missionaries have strong convictions as I do, so we kindly agreed to disagree. This “I’m okay your okay” attitude is not right, when a cult as the LDS church publicly denounces Christ’s church, her members “the Church Militant” must defend her, just as the early church fathers did.
[/quote]

Oh please don’t think I was singling you out in any way - I was not. I understand what you are saying - I was speaking of the general tone of the thread - and besides wanting respect for others, there are days when I wish Catholics could get a little,
:slight_smile:

I also resent those who when a good joke or pun or a sense of humor is displayed instantly fluff up their feathers and get “offended” or call the “charity police” - To laugh is good and all faiths have inside jokes which sometimes are wonderful to share.
Lord knows the world could use more laughter.


#10

Amen!


#11

Shut your stupid ugly face


#12

[quote=jaralenio]I understand that the LDS church claims that the book of mormon was translated from “golden plates” by Joseph Smith in 1827 by the use of two stones called “** **Urim and Thummin”. My question is **where are these plates? **It seems to me that showing these plates off would help the LDS cause.
[/quote]

Anyone that starts a thread with the word “Morman” shows that they do indeed need some learnin’. How would you like it if a Mormon started a thread off with the word “Cathlick”?


#13

[quote=Mr Big]Shut your stupid ugly face
[/quote]

I LOVE it!!! And your first post to boot! OOOOO–you’re gonna be fun!


#14

[quote=st_felicity]I LOVE it!!! And your first post to boot! OOOOO–you’re gonna be fun!
[/quote]

Actually I believe this is a case of reincarnation.:slight_smile:


#15

[quote=Tmaque]Anyone that starts a thread with the word “Morman” shows that they do indeed need some learnin’. How would you like it if a Mormon started a thread off with the word “Cathlick”?
[/quote]

If they bothered to spell it right, I wouldn’t mind at all.


#16

[quote=HagiaSophia]If they bothered to spell it right, I wouldn’t mind at all.
[/quote]

That is precisely my point.


#17

[quote=Tmaque]Anyone that starts a thread with the word “Morman” shows that they do indeed need some learnin’. How would you like it if a Mormon started a thread off with the word “Cathlick”?
[/quote]

Minor mistake, no pun intended. :slight_smile:


#18

[quote=Mr Big]Shut your stupid ugly face
[/quote]

:frowning:
What would Jesus say? What would Jesus do?

Evangelize allways, when that fails, use words.

Strive to be like Jesus.

Take your light out from under the basket and let it shine to all the world so that they might “see” your Faith.

After reading the above post, I can now see why so many missguided souls lost Faith in Christs Church and invented their own protestant version of it. But remember, one bad apple does not spoil all the fruit.


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