mormon prophet on Trinity


#1

I read the mormon prophets comments at their latest general conference. The spent a lot of time trying to claim they are Christians and are puzzled why we reject the book of mormon. We can give lots of reasons. Here is a taste:

"When the emperor Constantine was converted to Christianity, he became aware of the divisiveness among the clergy concerning the nature of Deity. In an attempt to overcome this he gathered the eminent divines of the day to Nicaea in the year 325. Each participant was given opportunity to state his views. The argument only grew more heated. When a definition could not be reached, a compromise was made. It came to be known as the Nicene Creed, and its basic elements are recited by most of the Christian faithful.

Personally I cannot understand it.

To me the creed is confusing.
How deeply grateful I am that we of this Church do not rely on any man-made statement concerning the nature of Deity. Our knowledge comes directly from the personal experience of Joseph Smith, who, while yet a boy, spoke with God the Eternal Father and His Beloved Son, the Risen Lord. He knelt in Their presence; he heard Their voices; and he responded. Each was a distinct personality. Small wonder that he told his mother that he had learned that her church was not true. And so, one of the great overarching doctrines of this Church is our belief in God the Eternal Father. He is a being, real and individual. He is the great Governor of the universe, yet He is our Father, and we are His children."

This folks is why mormons are not Christians. The above paragraph is simply incredible. Anyone notice he claims our doctrine is “man-made” and then starts jabbering about Joseph Smith? Does he have any idea of the inconsistancy? Also notice he claims he is “confused” and doesn’t understand the Nicene Creed. Isn’t he supposed to be inspired? Hasn’t he bothered to read about the Creed and what it really means or learn the history of Nicea?

Sorry mormons. You baptize converts because you believe their previous baptism and faith were deficient. We baptize mormons when they become Christians because mormonism is not Christian. I especially was amused by the sense of hurt feelings they got when we say that. Isn’t this the same church that calls us gentiles, baptizes our dead without permission, and treats non-mormons in Utah like scum? Don’t they send out thousands of missionaries to convert our people? Didn’t their temple ceremonies brand clergy as minions of Satan? Please, spare us the false claims and the pity party.

If your prophet would like I will send him a book on the Trinity free of charge and even visit with him to explain it.


#2

Wow, I thought I was harsh.


#3

First of all it would be best if you provided a link to that quote.

If it is true, that is a pretty unscholarly thing to say, start off trashing the Nicene Creed but turn around and praise the testimony of one man…simply incredible and, no offense, shows a clear lack of interest/ability to discuss real theology beyond the surface level.


#4

no, THIS is harsh

youtube.com/watch?v=rFYDpkoZjTE

youtube.com/watch?v=8TPpKLBtGl4

youtube.com/watch?v=9y5BayQ4Dvs


#5

:thumbsup:


#6

here is the link
lds.org/conference/talk/display/0,5232,49-1-690-30,00.html


#7

Yeah, that is harsh.


#8

Hinckley says the same type of thing almost every conference. It’s just apologetics, but it does show that Mormon Christianity is different than Catholic Christianity.


#9

There’s only one kind of Christianity and Mormonism ain’t it.


#10

Mormons believe Jesus atoned for their sins, died, and was resurrected from the dead. They baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. They aren’t “orthodox Christian”, but they are at least based on the Christian story found in the New Testament. Their theology is obviously wrong.


#11

Pretty offensive, but watching those videos I thought about Jonah preaching in Nineveh.


#12

FANTASTIC, CESTUSDEI !!! YOU GOT THAT RIGHT!!!


#13

It wasn’t harsh. It was pretty ignorant and stupid. Hinckley’s objections to the Nicene Creed are perfectly correct and valid. Instead of shouting abusers at him, why don’t you address his objections? Obviously he can’t, therefore he resorts to name calling instead.

zerinus


#14

his stated objection is that he doesn’t understand it. He says it’s confusing. He doesn’t say why he can’t understand it and doesn’t say what part(s) he finds confusing. That make sit a bit difficult to “address”. I guess you could ask him to study. :rolleyes: He misstates the facts about Constantine and the council of nicea. I offer this as an objective view of what happened:

columbia.edu/cu/augustine/arch/sbrandt/nicea.htm

newadvent.org/cathen/11049a.htm

Hinckley doesn’t tell us what he believes is wrong about the creed with any specificity. He implies that it is “man made” because it was written by men, yet he then praises the account that Joseph Smith allegedly wrote about in JS-H as showing the nature of God. That account (which has changed over the years) doesn’t address the Holy Spirit or much of anything else in the creed. It merely claims that Joseph saw and spoke to father and son at the same time. There is also the seeming hypocrisy of deriding “man made” doctrine while promoting the doctrines of Joseph Smith.

Hinkley goes on to imply that the entire JS-H is true which then gives us the mormon position that all other churches are wrong and no one should join them. That ALL their creeds are an ABOMINATION to God and all their professors corrupt. That would appear to contradict what the apologists have tries to say about that only applying to the specific folks in Joseph Smiths time and place.

I don’t doubt that Hinkley is confused about the creed. I can tell he doesn’t understand it but that’s no reason to call it an abomination and follow a man made religion started by a false prophet who contradicts sacred scripture.


#15

Ask a Mormom which book between the Bible and the Books of Mormon is the least reliable. Their answer should say it all. The books don’t ‘contradict’ the bible on lessons but they are obviously very blasphemous to those of us who believe in the final word of God in print. When they come to your house after speaking for a while they will say ‘see no contradiction’ between our books and the Bible… Joseph Smith was the man’. The key is too get right to the book of pearls and than ask them if they hold that book in higher esteem than the Bible. After that say no thank you and end the conversation.


#16

What a load of nonsensical gibberish.

zerinus


#17

This is just a new phase for Mormonism as told by GBH, for virtually the entire history of Mormonism they were quite content to not be considered historical Christians, many would have been offended that GBH launched this campaign to promote Mormonism as just another demon. Many traditionalist Mormons don’t care for GBH and his beliefs on developing relations with the "apostates."
These sorts of doctrinal cycles are run of the mill for Mormonism. Look at the history of the “Adam God doctrine” that Brigham Young taught, blacks holding the priesthood, polygamy, blood oaths, blood attonement, and so on.


#18

Hi Zerinus,
Could you explain further? Do you not believe that the Book of Pearls holds more water than the Bible?


#19

I have never heard of the “Book of Pearls”. I have no idea what you are talking about.

zerinus


#20

The Pearl of Great Price? Do you feel the Pearl of Great price is more accurate than the Bible?


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