Mormons and preexistence


#1

Mormons believe that they lived with their Heavenly Father as spirit children before their life on earth. This one has always bothered me. Since our souls come into being at conception, how can mormons say they existed before birth? Sounds pretty New Age to me. Any answers?


#2

You do have the Mormon concept of “spirit” children correct.

You have the Catholic concept that the soul is created upon conception correct too.

What else is there to say? Well we can say the rest of the Mormon belief. They believe that through sexual relations by God and his female God the creation of the “spirit children” occured.


#3

Does anyone know why Mormons have the believe that they pre-existed before conception as spiritual children with God. What do they base it on?


#4

[quote=Theodora]Does anyone know why Mormons have the believe that they pre-existed before conception as spiritual children with God. What do they base it on?
[/quote]

I think I can answer that, but of course you won’t agree, I can only explain what I as a Mormon believe. We believe we are all part of Heavenly Father’s plan. This plan originated long before any of us were born. Before the earth was created, we all lived as the spirit children of our Heavenly Father. Through the natural process of inheritance we received in embyo the traits and attributes of our Heavenly Father. We and you are His spirit children. Some of what our Eternal Father is,we have inherited. What he has become we may become(not many will but it is possible) .(for scriptural enlightenment on this concept Please see Acts 17:29 and Romans 8:16)
Life in our heavenly home was a little different from life on earth, as we weren’t subject to the frailties and challenges of mortality. But we were still very much involved with learning, growing, and maturing and developing: we had meaningful association with one another. We had the opportunity in our premortal existence to make decisions and choices, and someof us proved to be better at that than others.
I could go on and on, but that is just part of our belief and I do not have time to go on at this time…also read 2 Corinthians 5:7


#5

[quote=BJ Colbert]I think I can answer that, but of course you won’t agree, I can only explain what I as a Mormon believe. We believe we are all part of Heavenly Father’s plan. This plan originated long before any of us were born. Before the earth was created, we all lived as the spirit children of our Heavenly Father. Through the natural process of inheritance we received in embyo the traits and attributes of our Heavenly Father. We and you are His spirit children. Some of what our Eternal Father is,we have inherited. What he has become we may become(not many will but it is possible) .(for scriptural enlightenment on this concept Please see Acts 17:29 and Romans 8:16)
Life in our heavenly home was a little different from life on earth, as we weren’t subject to the frailties and challenges of mortality. But we were still very much involved with learning, growing, and maturing and developing: we had meaningful association with one another. We had the opportunity in our premortal existence to make decisions and choices, and someof us proved to be better at that than others.
I could go on and on, but that is just part of our belief and I do not have time to go on at this time…also read 2 Corinthians 5:7
[/quote]

I read your suggested scripture and I still don’t see where it says we existed as spirit children before conception. It just says that we are children of God. It makes no mention of previous existence.


#6

[quote=moira]I read your suggested scripture and I still don’t see where it says we existed as spirit children before conception. It just says that we are children of God. It makes no mention of previous existence.
[/quote]

I’m of the same mind…I see no reference of us being God’s spirit children and preexistence. One other thing that MUST be understood about the scripture references: Paul was talking to already baptized believers. He clearly tells us elsewhere, that we are adopted sons of God. We become adopted through our baptism in the church. See Romans 8:23; Romans 9:4; Ephesians 1:5; Galatians 3:26-27; Also, the footnotes for Romans 8:15 say “or adoption”. It is with this understanding, this assumption, the foreknowledge that Paul tells people that they are sons of God. 1)They are ADOPTED sons of God; 2)In order to be adopted, you must be baptized and believe.


#7

[quote=BJ Colbert]I think I can answer that, but of course you won’t agree, I can only explain what I as a Mormon believe. We believe we are all part of Heavenly Father’s plan. This plan originated long before any of us were born. Before the earth was created, we all lived as the spirit children of our Heavenly Father. Through the natural process of inheritance we received in embyo the traits and attributes of our Heavenly Father. We and you are His spirit children. Some of what our Eternal Father is,we have inherited. What he has become we may become(not many will but it is possible) .(for scriptural enlightenment on this concept Please see Acts 17:29 and Romans 8:16)
Life in our heavenly home was a little different from life on earth, as we weren’t subject to the frailties and challenges of mortality. But we were still very much involved with learning, growing, and maturing and developing: we had meaningful association with one another. We had the opportunity in our premortal existence to make decisions and choices, and someof us proved to be better at that than others.
I could go on and on, but that is just part of our belief and I do not have time to go on at this time…also read 2 Corinthians 5:7
[/quote]

So then, this belief held by Mormons, is just a theory. Then, yes, your right, I cannot agree to this. As a Catholic Christian this belief cannot be substantiated either by God’s revelations from the OT or the NT.

Peace.


#8

[quote=Theodora]Does anyone know why Mormons have the believe that they pre-existed before conception as spiritual children with God. What do they base it on?
[/quote]

It’s important to remember that in Mormon belief, Jesus and Satan are brothers – spirit children of the same Heavenly Father, as are we all. That makes Jesus and Satan our literal brothers, since we are all spirit children of the same god and goddess. In the spirit world in which we all once lived, Jesus volunteered to come to earth to save mankind. Lucifer (Satan) also volunteered. Satan got angry because Jesus was chosen. God had sexual relations with the Virgin Mary to produce the earthly Jesus. And the story goes on from there . . .

Bottom line: Mormons believe it because Joseph Smith taught it. They believe him to be the prophet of Heavenly Father – one of the three separate and distinct gods of the earth, the other two being Jesus and the Holy Ghost.

My point is, that in LDS doctrine, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are “spirit children” too, just as we are. That makes them our brothers. :whacky:

JMJ Jay


#9

[quote=Katholikos]It’s important to remember that in Mormon belief, Jesus and Satan are brothers – spirit children of the same Heavenly Father, as are we all. That makes Jesus and Satan our literal brothers, since we are all spirit children of the same god and goddess. In the spirit world in which we all once lived, Jesus volunteered to come to earth to save mankind. Lucifer (Satan) also volunteered. Satan got angry because Jesus was chosen. God had sexual relations with the Virgin Mary to produce the earthly Jesus. And the story goes on from there . . .

Bottom line: Mormons believe it because Joseph Smith taught it. They believe him to be the prophet of Heavenly Father – one of the three separate and distinct gods of the earth, the other two being Jesus and the Holy Ghost.

My point is, that in LDS doctrine, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are “spirit children” too, just as we are. That makes them our brothers. :whacky:

JMJ Jay
[/quote]

Thank you. So then, everything Mormons believe is viewed from Jospeh Smith’s perspective. Since his opinons supersedes the Bible, why bother with the Bible at all? I know the Mormons consider the Bible only as far, according to them, it has been translated correctly. Why bother with a book that can be defective in many other ways, according to their beliefs. Does not makes much sense, does it?


#10

Jesus the brother of Lucifer? In Christianity Lucifer was created by God through Jesus as a good angel. This angel rebelled against God , Christ and the Holy Spirit. This angel comes to us in seen evilness and in what appears to be the light of Christ depending on it’s prey. It even takes on the name of Jesus in order to deceive good people away from God and his beloved Son… It plays on human desires and human dreams of excellence through promotion. In Christianity God is Creator of all things seen and unseen, all things were created through Christ His beloved and only Son. There is no beginning and there is no end to our Creator, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit have always been. But there is a beginning for us and there is also an end to us. We as Christians know that God is our very breath, that it is He who breaths life into us, aluminates us. . We see this gift of Jesus to us and in us. That which we can see of the Father, hear him, touch him and be loved by Him. You can’t live under water without coming up for air sooner our later nor can you live without the Creator’s breath. There is no line of progression to Godhood, only a progression to God. If this is not enough for you and me there is a fallen angel that will offer us what only appears to be more. Everything that our human hearts would desire and a bit more. But beware and look to what Jesus accomplished in the in the dessert. One offers life through a second chance on Jesus. The other offers life also as if if it were better.

But God has said it will bring death, simply because it is not offered by God. And we do all die because God is Truth itself and he does not lie. One is the Truth and the other is offering a lie. One offers life, the other offers concealed death. In the end who will hear the Shepard’s voice? There may be a choice. On one side it will be your Family, on the other side it will be Christ. A Warning……go to the Shepard, in him your family will be found. Everything that was good about your family on earth will be found only in Him. catholic-rcia.com/pages/trinity_Catholic.html

God Bless

Rich

www.catholic-rcia.com


#11

[quote=Theodora]Thank you. So then, everything Mormons believe is viewed from Jospeh Smith’s perspective. Since his opinons supersedes the Bible, why bother with the Bible at all? I know the Mormons consider the Bible only as far, according to them, it has been translated correctly. Why bother with a book that can be defective in many other ways, according to their beliefs. Does not makes much sense, does it?
[/quote]

Mormons have four “scriptures”: Book of Mormon, Doctrine & Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, and the KJV “as corrected by Joseph Smith.” Joe Smith wrote three of them himself, and “corrected” the fourth.

They hold, also, that the Bible has been corrupted by the Catholic Church and is no longer a reliable guide. They believe strongly in the teachings of Joseph Smith – period.

Joseph Smith was found guilty [March, 1826] in a New York court of “being a disorderly person and an imposter” for telling people he could find treasure on their property by using his magic peep stones. Mormons will deny this, but it’s true. The court records exist. He later wrote the Book of Mormon (which he translated from “Reformed Egyptian” into pseudo Elizabethan English with the help of magic spectacles called Urim and Thummin) and founded the LDS church [1830].

It’s quite amazing.

:slight_smile: JMJ Jay


#12

[quote=Katholikos]Mormons have four “scriptures”: Book of Mormon, Doctrine & Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, and the KJV “as corrected by Joseph Smith.” Joe Smith wrote three of them himself, and “corrected” the fourth.

They hold, also, that the Bible has been corrupted by the Catholic Church and is no longer a reliable guide. They believe strongly in the teachings of Joseph Smith – period.

:slight_smile: JMJ Jay
[/quote]

Do you know what Bible Mormons use? Would it be a KJV “corrected” by them and does it get passed off as the Mormon Bible? Thanks for your answer.


#13

[quote=Theodora]Do you know what Bible Mormons use? Would it be a KJV “corrected” by them and does it get passed off as the Mormon Bible? Thanks for your answer.
[/quote]

The Mormons use the standard KJV as far as I can tell. They do have footnotes, etc. with Joseph Smith’s corrections, but I did not see any of his “corrections” in the actual text. Course, I also only made it about 10% through the OT before deciding to get a regular KJV from the local Christian bookstore just in case.


#14

Mormons use the standard KJV, but published in an LDS edition with their own footnotes and cross-references to other Mormon “scriptures”.
I have the LDS “missionary edition” of the KJV from 1975 which also has a Ready References section in the middle - a sort of cheat sheet for LDS proof texts.
Paul


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