Mormons>>What is Baptism after death???


#1

:confused: I, along with my six brothers and sister were raised Catholic. We continued to raise our children the same except my brother now in his forties, has converted his family to Mormons. They were sealed (I think it means married) last Spring. He is a Bishop. Anyway my sister died last July from lupus at the age of 40. She of course had Last Rights. At the wake my brother had the nerve to approach my grieving brother-in-law and my parents about Baptism after death in the Mormon Church. Needless to say they would not permitt it. He got mad and made nasty remarks regarding Catholic Church. We all stated under no circumtances is this to be done to any of us. BUT what is it and if someone does this to your soul after death does it no longer make you a Catholic??? I am confused but can’t ask anyone in my family(they are still to upset) and I don’t want my brother sending people to my home like he did to my sister when she was dying,(my brother-in-law threw them out of his home):confused:


#2

I hope Paul Dupre sees this thread, he is a very informed LDS man, but now is Catholic.

I read that some Mormons ( actually many) have " had people who died a century ago Baptised as Mormons". Wait for Paul D.


#3

I am pretty sure that your brother can do it without anyone’s else’s permission. This is pretty standard procedure for the Mormons. They believe they are doing their ancestors and relatives a favor. Non-Mormons are (understandably) very offended. A Jewish group strongly objected to the mass baptism of Holocaust victims as Mormons and I recall that the LDS church agreed to stop the practice but were accused of reneging on that promise.

My condolences on your family’s loss of your sister.


#4

[quote=kaymart]:confused: I, along with my six brothers and sister were raised Catholic. We continued to raise our children the same except my brother now in his forties, has converted his family to Mormons. They were sealed (I think it means married) last Spring. He is a Bishop. Anyway my sister died last July from lupus at the age of 40. She of course had Last Rights. At the wake my brother had the nerve to approach my grieving brother-in-law and my parents about Baptism after death in the Mormon Church. Needless to say they would not permitt it. He got mad and made nasty remarks regarding Catholic Church. We all stated under no circumtances is this to be done to any of us. BUT what is it and if someone does this to your soul after death does it no longer make you a Catholic??? I am confused but can’t ask anyone in my family(they are still to upset) and I don’t want my brother sending people to my home like he did to my sister when she was dying,(my brother-in-law threw them out of his home):confused:
[/quote]

Kay- My condolences regarding the death of your sister. Also, I hope that with time your family and your brother will work out these problems.

Regarding baptism of the dead, I’m not completely sure, but I’d guess that the Mormons base their belief in baptism for the dead on this quote:

1 Corinthians, 15:29 (Douay-Rheims)* Otherwise, what shall they do that are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not again at all? Why are they then baptized for them?\i]

Some of this may have gone on in the very early days of the Church, but seems to go well against the grain of most Christian theology.*


#5

Mormons believe that anyone who did not have an opportunity to hear and accept their version of the gospel on earth will have an opportunity to be taught in heaven. Once taught, they can choose to accept it or reject it. Mormons believe that in order to accept it, they must be baptized, and since there is no baptizing in heaven, they must be baptized through someone else by proxy back here on earth.

As far as I know, Mormons do not require permission from the family of a deceased person. Whether you give them permission or not, it will most likely be done anyway. That is the underlying reason fo their huge interest in geneology. Mormons are expected to do their own family geneology so they can bring names to the temples for proxy baptisms.

Your brother believes that your sister will be taught the Mormon gospel in heaven, and that a proxy baptism will enable her to continue in her eternal progression.

The Catholic Church completely rejects this practice. We do not believe in proxy baptisms. We believe that a person is judged at the time of our death based on our life and our circumstances. We do not require any ritual performed on our behalf by someone else. Furthermore, the Catholic Church rejects Mormon baptism because of their unbelief in the blessed trinity. They belief the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three separate beings. Without a proper understanding of the trinity, a religion cannot properly baptize an individual.


#6

:blessyou: Thank you all for your kind words about my sister, her death has been very hard on all of us.Thank you all for your responses. Please any more info on Mormonism??? I have to know what I am up against here. He, my brother shouts out Biblical messages like crazy. :confused: Some I never even heard of!!!


#7

[quote=Chris-WA]Mormons believe that anyone who did not have an opportunity to hear and accept their version of the gospel on earth will have an opportunity to be taught in heaven. Once taught, they can choose to accept it or reject it. Mormons believe that in order to accept it, they must be baptized, and since there is no baptizing in heaven, they must be baptized through someone else by proxy back here on earth.

As far as I know, Mormons do not require permission from the family of a deceased person. Whether you give them permission or not, it will most likely be done anyway. That is the underlying reason fo their huge interest in geneology. Mormons are expected to do their own family geneology so they can bring names to the temples for proxy baptisms.

Your brother believes that your sister will be taught the Mormon gospel in heaven, and that a proxy baptism will enable her to continue in her eternal progression.

The Catholic Church completely rejects this practice. We do not believe in proxy baptisms. We believe that a person is judged at the time of our death based on our life and our circumstances. We do not require any ritual performed on our behalf by someone else. Furthermore, the Catholic Church rejects Mormon baptism because of their unbelief in the blessed trinity. They belief the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three separate beings. Without a proper understanding of the trinity, a religion cannot properly baptize an individual.
[/quote]

Good job, Chris. The only addition I would make is that the LDS believe that between death and the resurrection, non-Mormons are confined to a “spirit prison” where they are instructed by Mormon missionaries.

See catholic.com/library/lor_010801a.asp for details on the reasons why the Church rejects Mormon baptism as invalid.

Kay, I am sorry for your loss. But be assured that no matter if the Mormons, the Moonies or the Wiccans perform a proxy ceremony for your sister, she remains a Catholic. Besides, she is under Jesus’ care and protection now, where no cult can ever touch her.
In Christ Jesus,
Paul

(yes, I know Moonies and Wiccans don’t do proxy baptisms.)


#8

[quote=kaymart]Please any more info on Mormonism??? I have to know what I am up against here. He, my brother shouts out Biblical messages like crazy. :confused: Some I never even heard of!!!
[/quote]

Mormons have four books of “scripture”: (1)KJV Bible as “corrected”, (2) Book of Mormon, (3) Doctrine & Covenants, (4) Pearl of Great Price.

The Church of Latter Day-Saints (the Mormons) was founded by Joseph Smith in Palmyra, New York, in 1830. Mormons believe in the Bible only “insofar as it is correctly translated.” They explain that the Bible has been corrupted by all those false churches that Jesus told Joseph Smith not to join when he appeared to him in a vision, but especially by the Catholic Church. For that reason, arguments from the Bible don’t impress them. Through Joseph Smith, God provided Mormons with their own Inspired Version of the Bible – JS didn’t need language training or manuscripts, God gave the “corrections” to him directly. Their “Bible” is the KJV rewritten to conform to Mormon doctrine.

To believe Mormonism, one has to believe absolutely that Joseph Smith is the anointed prophet of God – but many people who study his life believe that he was one of most most clever con men in history, and that he continues conning people even from his grave. The stories about how he “translated” the Book of Mormon and rewrote the KJV are evidence for the latter.

These “scriptures” can be purchased from any LDS bookstore.

Your brother apparently didn’t know the history of Christianity, the history of the Bible, and his Catholic faith well enough to defend himself against the assault of the Mormon missionaries and their deceits. He now believes that the Catholic Church became apostate shortly after it was founded and that there was no true church until Joseph Smith restored it in 1830. He thinks he now belongs to the only “true church.” Mormonism is pure unadulterated bull-oney.

JMJ Jay


#9

Sounds like you have gotten pretty good answers here. One thing I haven’t seen mentioned is what the LDS church requires in order to have a proxy baptism. They only need the person’s name, birthdate, and I believe date of death (though I’m not sure on that one). Then, young people (I have friends who are 15 & 13 who go) go to the temple and are baptized for people they never knew, and possibly have been dead for hundreds of years. They do the same thing for marriages. Couples who have been married and sealed in the temple can be proxy sealers of other people. And they have no problems sealing dead people to people they never knew, and people who weren’t even alive at the same time.


#10

I am sorry for your brother’s actions, they reflect very badly on the LDS Church. He is wrong to behave in such a manner to try to force his beliefs on you and at such a tender time. Baptism for the dead is done in our Temples of which there are 123 around the world. It is usually done only following the family line of the LDS member, but with permission of living relatives can be done for others. If there are no living relatives then a year after death the baptism can be done by proxy. The departed spirit has no obligation to accept this baptism and it in no way affects the baptism of the Church they were baptised into, unless in the spirit world they decide to accept it of their own free will. Your brother should be ashamed of himself for such behavior, it reflects badly on the Church and as with the Catholic Church, in the LDS Church there are good people as well as some very misguided people. I hope you will not judge all by the misbehavior of your brother. Besides what you and your sister believe can not be affected by a Church that you do not believe in. Her Catholic religion as well as yours is perfectly intact and will not be affected no matter what another religion does. I can only say in defense of your brother that he is as emotionally distraught as you are over the passing of your sister and he has just not been able to handle it in a rational way. Perhaps, with time he will adjust and realize his outbursts have caused more harm than good.


#11

[quote=BJ Colbert]I am sorry for your brother’s actions, they reflect very badly on the LDS Church. He is wrong to behave in such a manner to try to force his beliefs on you and at such a tender time. Baptism for the dead is done in our Temples of which there are 123 around the world. It is usually done only following the family line of the LDS member, but with permission of living relatives can be done for others. If there are no living relatives then a year after death the baptism can be done by proxy. The departed spirit has no obligation to accept this baptism and it in no way affects the baptism of the Church they were baptised into, unless in the spirit world they decide to accept it of their own free will. Your brother should be ashamed of himself for such behavior, it reflects badly on the Church and as with the Catholic Church, in the LDS Church there are good people as well as some very misguided people. I hope you will not judge all by the misbehavior of your brother. Besides what you and your sister believe can not be affected by a Church that you do not believe in. Her Catholic religion as well as yours is perfectly intact and will not be affected no matter what another religion does. I can only say in defense of your brother that he is as emotionally distraught as you are over the passing of your sister and he has just not been able to handle it in a rational way. Perhaps, with time he will adjust and realize his outbursts have caused more harm than good.
[/quote]

Sad isn’t it, that no matter what church you belong to, no matter what walk of life, or area of culture, there are always people who give stuff a bad name? Makes it hard for people to believe in what you believe in when there are people out there giving off a negative image.


#12

I wish to thank everyone who took the time to answer my post. You all have given me many answers to questions I have had about this situation. Also for your kind words for my sister. BTW no matter what he trys she has at least 10 Masses to be said in her name in 2005 along with many Perpetual Mass Cards and just this Sunday her Name is one the Altar (along with others) for All Souls Day. Also she is in my Prayers everyday. :blessyou: Thank You


#13

Hello Kaymart,

I will keep your Mormon brother and his family in my prayers. Having cult members in your family, I’m sure, at times can be rather trying. I’m speaking from experience. You’re doing the right thing by researching the Mormons. Also, the knowledge of the origins and history of Christianity comes in handy in dealing with groups like the Mormons. A knowledgeable Catholic can fight the good fight against Mormonism’s bogus claims.

Also, if you haven’t checked them out yet, there are other wonderful threads on this forum about the Mormon belief system.

God bless!

Let nothing afright thee,
Let nothing disturb thee,
All things are passing,
God never changes.

  • St. Theresa of Avila -

#14

A dear friend of mine was a bishop in the mormon church. He lived his faith in every way and never attempted to inflict it on anyone who was not interested. He died 4 years ago and I have prayed for him at Mass EVERY week since. I occasionaly wonder what his family would think if they knew of my actions on behalf of his soul. I smile at the thought that he got a huge surprise after death! :slight_smile:


#15

I did Baptisms for the Dead back when I was in youth groups many years ago, and it seemed very unreal, where several of the names had matching First and Last Names. Been over 25 years since ive been inside an operating Mormon Temple.

As far as the Trinity Issue is Concerned, I believe that the Savior Jesus christ did die on the cross then was Resurected into an immortal body, but as far as The Father in HEAVEN and the holy Ghost, I know that the Holy Ghost is an entity that can be in all of our hearts at the same time. As far as the Heavenly Father is Concerned I know that Jesus Christ in the Flesh had many prayers said up to the Father while on this earth. So how can GOD be the same entity that was both on earth in the flesh and in heaven at the same time? So why did Jesus have to pray up to the father while on Earth?? I believe that the trinity is one GOD except for the exception listed above.


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