Mormons


#1

I found this

Mormons, for example, claim that there is an innumerable multitude of gods and that new gods are being formed all the time.

here
catholic.com/library/One_True_God.asp

So how do they hold on to there Christian status and still be identified with a monotheistic religion? Or am I miss reading it?


#2

I personally don’t consider Mormons Christians. I don’t mean that offensively to them(I really don’t!), I just don’t see how they’re Christians, and the more I learn about LDS, the less Christianity I see in it.


#3

The general consensus among Christians is that Mormons are not Christians. They deny most of the basic beliefs that all Christians - Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant - have always shared.

That doesn’t mean that Mormons are bad. Many of them are very nice people, but that doesn’t make them Christians. Some of the most wonderful people I’ve known have been non-Christians. The two concepts are unrelated.

Paul


#4

And you may find that individual Mormons hold a different opinion about some of these issues than their church holds. I have known a number of Mormons who reject the whole idea of multiple Gods. Eventually, a lot of those types wind up leaving the Mormon Church, but it is possible there are Christians in the Mormon Church even though the Mormon Church itself is not orthodox Christian. It’s hard to judge the hearts of people.

Interestingly, there are a number of splinter Mormon groups (the Community of Christ for example) which accept the doctrine of the Trinity.


#5

It doesn’t make a bit of sense to me that God revealed himself as One God to the Hebrews, and spent so much time (and blood) proving that he would tolerate no other gods before him, to have suddenly split himself apart into multiple gods as the Mormons claim. My best guess is that most of this confusion comes about because of the Trinity. Mormons aren’t the only believers who are confused by the Trinity. Trinity is a hard subject for an awful lot of people. Because Mormons are specifically disobedient to the teaching authority of the Catholic Church, they’ve misinterpreted the Scriptures on this point. The development of their mulitplicity of gods ideas took place over a period of time.

The Holy Trinity is the “central doctrine of the Christian religion.” Jesus spoke about it constantly as revealed in the gospels. It would be impossible to reconcile Jesus’ teachings about his nature, and the nature of God, and the foretelling of the coming of the Holy Ghost at Pentecost, by formulating a theology of multiple separate gods, while also holding to the distinctly monotheistic revelation of God to the Hebrews. It is my understanding that Trinity is the way the Church accomplished both things, by developing a theology that allowed for God to remain One, while revealing Himself in three persons.


#6

I consider LDS Christians because they believe in the atonement.


#7

Mormonism is probably much closer to Hinduism than anything else. They believe in a multiplicity of gods. They do NOT have Christian status for several reasons, disbelief in the Holy Trinity, Jesus as brother of Lucifer,denial of the Virgin Birth. They cannot assent to all the clauses of the Nicene Creed, therefore, non-Christian.


#8

I consider LDS Christians because they believe in the atonement.

But that’s not the atonement that we believe in, right? They believe that Christ’s “Atonement” happened in His agony in the garden, and that’s where he paid the price for our sins. We believe in His atoning, complete sacrifice on the cross. Correct me if I’m wrong. . . ?


#9

WOW! Never heard that one before. Can you give me more detail?


#10

(short version) Jesus and Lucifer, brothers in the pre-existance, contend for earth, Jesus wins, Lucifer rules Hell.

   Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, Pg.216, The Savior's Example

        "The importance of not accommodating temptation in the least degree is underlined by the Savior's example. Did not he recognize the danger when he was on the mountain with his fallen brother, Lucifer, being sorely tempted by that master tempter? He could have opened the door and flirted with danger by Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, Pg.67, AUTHOR OF SALVATION

  "Thus when the Father presented his own plan in the pre-existent council, he asked for volunteers from whom he could choose a Redeemer to be born into mortality as the Son of God. Lucifer offered to become the Son of God on condition that the terms of the Father's plan were modified to deny men their agency and to heap inordinate reward upon the one working out the redemption. Christ, on the other hand, accepted the Father's plan in full, saying, "Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever." Our Lord was then foreordained to a mission which in due course he fulfilled, which mission enabled him to make salvation available to all men. (Moses 4:1-4; Abra. 3:22-28.)"

The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, Pg.33

  "But thank God that there were enough sane and sagacious souls on the side of truth and wisdom and the rebellious souls were vanquished as to the eternal and ultimate program. The principal personalities in this great drama were a Father Elohim, perfect in wisdom, judgment, and person, and two sons, Lucifer and Jehovah. (12/19/59)" 

  "Satan tempted both Christ and Moses. There is another power in this world forceful and vicious. In the wilderness of Judaea, on the temple's pinnacles and on the high mountain, a momentous contest took place between two brothers, Jehovah and Lucifer, sons of Elohim. When physically weak from fasting, Christ was tempted by Lucifer: "If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread." (Luke 4:3.)"

The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, Pg.163

  "The importance of not accommodating temptation in the least degree is underlined by the Savior's example. Did not he recognize the danger when he was on the mountain with his fallen brother, Lucifer, being sorely tempted by that master tempter? He could have opened the door and flirted with danger by saying, "All right, Satan, I'll listen to your proposition. I need not succumb, I need not yield, I need not accept -- but I'll listen."

#11

Can anyone explain this bit to me? That the atonement happened in the garden at Gethsemane? I’d never heard of that particular Mormon belief.

Pax Vobiscum


#12

Mormons believe that a part of the atonement occurred before the Crucifixion in the Garden of Gethsemene (not sure of the spelling!) where Jesus Christ “sweat blood” and prayed for mankind for hours, so long that the rest of the disciples fell asleep. Bear in mind, Mormons believe that ONLY PART of the atonement occurred at that time. They rest of the atonement for the sins of the world occurred at the Crucifixion.

Since I am not a scholar in Mormon Doctrine, I don’t know the source of this belief, but that is what my Mormon friends have told me.


#13

I used to teach mormon gospel doctrine. They believe that in Gethsemane Jesus literally took upon himself all the sins of the world past present and future. the pain and suffering was so great that he sweated blood. they believe his death was necessary so that in resurrection he could enable the rest of us to be resurrected. (don’t worry about how lazarus worked though) all of this is in mormon “scripture” specifically the D&C.


#14

Thanks for those replies!


#15

I hope you don’t mind me butting in here but I always thought a Christian was someone who believes that Jesus of Nazareth, who was rejected by the Jews, crucified by Pontius Pilate, and was raised from the dead, was the promised Messiah of the Hebrew Scriptures!

On the other hand Mormons are obviously not Catholic Christians because they do not believe in the conclusions that came out of the Council of Nicea etc. etc. But they are Christians none the less!

I think belief in all this speculative stuff about gods and angels and revelation does not determine whether one is a Christian any more than the belief on the neo-platonic idea that God is three seperate entities in one substance.


#16

They believe all of the passion of Christ from the garden until his death on the cross are part of the atonement. He took upon himself the sins of the world in the garden by agreeing to do the will of the Father and then continued to suffer for our sins until his death on the cross was complete.


#17

the Catholic Church does not recognize Mormon baptism as valid since they deny the doctrine of the Trinity, upon which the valid baptismal formula depends, consequently do not intend what the Church intends in this sacrament.


#18

Even though Catholics do not accept Mormon Baptism, or Mormons accept Catholic Baptism a Christian is someone who accepts Jesus of Nazareth as the Promised Messiah of Hebrew prophecy.

If we concede that only Catholic Baptism is valid then no one is a Christian if one has not been baptised by a Catholic Priest.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Ephesians Chapter 1:3


#19

I agree with Asa Ben Judah there. I think a Christian is someone who believes in Christ.

Most of the Mormons I have had dealings with have been very Christian in their attitude and their behaviour.

I think we do ourselves a dis-service when we say this oe that group isn’t a Christian group. Enough so called Christians claim that of Catholicism do they not? It’s not our place to decide. Jesus himself will seperate the lambs from the goats!


#20

I agree with Asa Ben Judah there. I think a Christian is someone who believes in Christ.

Most of the Mormons I have had dealings with have been very Christian in their attitude and their behaviour.

I think we do ourselves a dis-service when we say this oe that group isn’t a Christian group. Enough so


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