Mortal Sin


#1

I remember reading somewhere that one of the councils I think it was the council of Trent that tells us a man can never know with absolute certainty whether he is living in mortal sin or not.

Can someone please confirm this? Please provide a reference with your answer.


#2

[quote="Augustine3, post:1, topic:311497"]
I remember reading somewhere that one of the councils I think it was the council of Trent that tells us a man can never know with absolute certainty whether he is living in mortal sin or not.

Can someone please confirm this? Please provide a reference with your answer.

[/quote]


#3

You know the basics of your religion through CCD and high school religion.

A mortal sin has to be a very serioius offense against God

Just look at the 10 commandments and this will lead you to the truth

Remember, no matter what mortal sin we have committed, it can be forgiven with true sorrow. except the sin against the Holy Spirit which means you do not believe that you have been forgiven

God bless


#4

we can know. in fact, knowing is one of the conditions that must be met in order for one to be culpable i.e., **guilty **of mortal sin.

CCC 1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."


#5

Because grace is not an object of experience but is known by faith, we cannot rely on our feelings or our works to conclude that we are justified and saved (Council of Trent). However, God's blessing in our lives shows that grace is at work. Asked about being in the state of grace, Joan of Arc responded at her trial, "If I am not, may it please God to put me in it; if I am, may it please God to keep me there."
catholicity.com/catechism/grace.html


#6

Sorry perhaps I wasn’t clear with my question. Let’s say for example a man was tempted to have impure thoughts. He is not sure whether he has entertained those thoughts in his head to become a sin. Then what? He wouldn’t know for certain whether he is still in the state of grace...

Another thing, if we know for certain we are in the state of grace then we would know for sure at that moment we are going to heaven. As Catholics wouldn’t that be a little too presumptuous?

God bless,


#7

By this description (venial sin), would not keep one from Heaven. It does not mean that one merits Heaven simply because they are not in mortal sin. We are called to be perfect, just as our Heavenly Father is perfect.


#8

Thanks guys for answering. My main question is this one below.

[quote="Augustine3, post:6, topic:311497"]

Another thing, if we know for certain we are in the state of grace then we would know for sure at that moment we are going to heaven. As Catholics wouldn’t that be a little too presumptuous?

[/quote]


#9

[quote="Augustine3, post:1, topic:311497"]
I remember reading somewhere that one of the councils I think it was the council of Trent that tells us a man can never know with absolute certainty whether he is living in mortal sin or not.

Can someone please confirm this? Please provide a reference with your answer.

[/quote]

I haven't seen this in Trent but there may be something related. However, Trent does affirm that no one can presume to know with 100% certainty that they possess eternal life, calling such presumption the "vain confidence" of the heretics.


#10

[quote="fhansen, post:9, topic:311497"]
I haven't seen this in Trent but there may be something related. However, Trent does affirm that no one can presume to know with 100% certainty that they possess eternal life, calling such presumption the "vain confidence" of the heretics.

[/quote]

If we can know for certain we are in a state of grace at a particular moment then why can’t you know with absolute certainty if we died at that moment we would go to heaven?


#11

[quote="Augustine3, post:10, topic:311497"]
If we can know for certain we are in a state of grace at a particular moment then why can’t you know with absolute certainty if we died at that moment we would go to heaven?

[/quote]

I don't think we can for sure if we're in a state of grace or not, whether after Baptism or Reconciliation-only God knows with 100% certainty. He's the judge and scripture tells us that, while man judges by appearances (we probably have no other choice anyway), God judges by the heart.


#12

[quote="fhansen, post:11, topic:311497"]
I don't think we can for sure if we're in a state of grace or not, whether after Baptism or Reconciliation-only God knows with 100% certainty. He's the judge and scripture tells us that, while man judges by appearances (we probably have no other choice anyway), God judges by the heart.

[/quote]

That’s exactly the point I was trying to point out. I’m just wondering if the same point is taught in any of the church councils, encyclicals etc.?

God bless,


#13

Maybe we cannot know 100% certain in the context of faith and hope. We don't really KNOW, but we BELIEVE and HOPE. We will to believe and trust what God and the Church tell us even though do not grasp them fully. But the Church teaches us certain guidelines to discern if we have committed a mortal sin. The Church also teaches us to receive sacraments that could place us in the state of sanctifying grace. By faith and hope, we heed the Church's counsels and trust God although we cannot see our souls 100% to be in the state of mortal sin or sanctifying grace.

Sorry perhaps I wasn’t clear with my question. Let’s say for example a man was tempted to have impure thoughts. He is not sure whether he has entertained those thoughts in his head to become a sin. Then what? He wouldn’t know for certain whether he is still in the state of grace...

Yes, this is possible. I think I've read this in Fr. Leo Trese's "The Faith Explained." In such cases, it is confessed by saying "May God forgive me as he sees me guilty." In some cases where we doubt if something is indeed a mortal sin, then probably it's not a mortal sin because mortal sin require's full knowledge of a sin's gravity as well as full consent. Just make sure it's not feigned ignorance, though.


#14

Yes, I referred to it in post #9. Trent addresses it quite clearly in session 6 in the following chapters. The “special revelation” mentioned in chap XII is extremely rare, essentially what is called a “mystical experience”.

**CHAPTER IX.
Against the vain confidence of Heretics.
But, although it is necessary to believe that sins neither are remitted, nor ever were remitted save gratuitously by the mercy of God for Christ’s sake; yet is it not to be said, that sins are forgiven, or have been forgiven, to any one who boasts of his confidence and certainty of the remission of his sins, and rests on that alone; seeing that it may exist, yea does in our day exist, amongst heretics and schismatics; and with great vehemence is this vain confidence, and one alien from all godliness, preached up in opposition to the Catholic Church. But neither [Page 37] is this to be asserted,-that they who are truly justified must needs, without any doubting whatever, settle within themselves that they are justified, and that no one is absolved from sins and justified, but he that believes for certain that he is absolved and justified; and that absolution and justification are effected by this faith alone: as though whoso has not this belief, doubts of the promises of God, and of the efficacy of the death and resurrection of Christ. For even as no pious person ought to doubt of the mercy of God, of the merit of Christ, and of the virtue and efficacy of the sacraments, even so each one, when he regards himself, and his own weakness and indisposition, may have fear and apprehension touching his own grace; seeing that no one can know with a certainty of faith, which cannot be subject to error, that he has obtained the grace of God.

CHAPTER XII.
That a rash presumptuousness in the matter of Predestination is to be avoided.
No one, moreover, so long as he is in this mortal life, ought so far to presume as regards the secret mystery of divine predestination, as to determine for certain that he is assuredly in [Page 40] the number of the predestinate; as if it were true, that he that is justified, either cannot sin any more, or, if he do sin, that he ought to promise himself an assured repentance; for except by special revelation, it cannot be known whom God hath chosen unto Himself.

CHAPTER XIII.
On the gift of Perseverance.
So also as regards the gift of perseverance, of which it is written, He that shall persevere to the end, he shall be saved:-which gift cannot be derived from any other but Him, who is able to establish him who standeth that he stand perseveringly, and to restore him who falleth:-let no one herein promise himself any thing as certain with an absolute certainty; though all ought to place and repose a most firm hope in God’s help. For God, unless men be themselves wanting to His grace, as he has begun the good work, so will he perfect it, working (in them) to will and to accomplish. Nevertheless, let those who think themselves to stand, take heed lest they fall, and, with fear and trembling work out their salvation, in labours, in watchings, in almsdeeds, in prayers and oblations, in fastings and chastity: for, knowing that they are born again unto a hope of glory, but not as yet unto glory, they ought to fear for the combat which yet remains with the flesh, with the world, with the devil, wherein they cannot be victorious, unless they be with God’s grace, obedient to the Apostle, who says; We are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh; for if you live according to the flesh, you shall die; but if by the spirit you mortify the deeds of the flesh, you shall live**.


#15

Let’s follow this through logically…if one cannot know with absolute certainty he is going to heaven then he cannot know with absolute certainty if he is in a state of grace at any moment in time, for only people in a state of grace get to heaven.


#16

[quote="Augustine3, post:15, topic:311497"]
Let’s follow this through logically...if one cannot know with absolute certainty he is going to heaven then he cannot know with absolute certainty if he is in a state of grace at any moment in time, for only people in a state of grace get to heaven.

[/quote]

i'm not sure i understand what the issue is,
but it seems to me that ppl can feel like they are in a state of grace
i suppose if the person dies in that moment, there would no issue of certainty or uncertainty, because they would be going to heaven
now if that state of grace is followed by one of spiritual pride - one demon out replaced by ten others coming in - the person may not go to heaven at some later point in time

i tend not to worry about things; do God's will and have faith


#17

[quote="Augustine3, post:15, topic:311497"]
Let’s follow this through logically...if one cannot know with absolute certainty he is going to heaven then he cannot know with absolute certainty if he is in a state of grace at any moment in time, for only people in a state of grace get to heaven.

[/quote]

Yes? No one except God knows with 100% certainty.


closed #18

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