Moslem pray for Muhamad to enter the heaven


#1

Hi Every One, Before Azan Mahgrib At Around 6 O’clock On Television In Indonesia There Is Always Spoken An Ayat From Qur’an Which Say
" God Almighty Please Give Muhammad An Honored Place As You Promise" So…where Is Muhammad Now?

But Jesus Say " I Am The Way, The Truth, And The Life, There Is No Way To Father’s House Except Through Me.


#2

Amen!


#3

[quote=ronald]Hi Every One, Before Azan Mahgrib At Around 6 O’clock On Television In Indonesia There Is Always Spoken An Ayat From Qur’an Which Say
" God Almighty Please Give Muhammad An Honored Place As You Promise" So…where Is Muhammad Now?

But Jesus Say " I Am The Way, The Truth, And The Life, There Is No Way To Father’s House Except Through Me.
[/quote]

THIS QUESTION IS ESPECIALLY FOR THE MOSLEMS.


#4

[quote=ronald]Hi Every One, Before Azan Mahgrib At Around 6 O’clock On Television In Indonesia There Is Always Spoken An Ayat From Qur’an Which Say
" God Almighty Please Give Muhammad An Honored Place As You Promise" So…where Is Muhammad Now?

But Jesus Say " I Am The Way, The Truth, And The Life, There Is No Way To Father’s House Except Through Me.
[/quote]

he’s waiting for the day of judgement in his grave, just like everyone else who’s died.


#5

SO HE IS IN GRAVE NOT IN HEAVEN. DON’T YOU THINK THAT JESUS IS IN HIS GRAVE NOW BECAUSE HE WILL COME FROM HEAVEN ( WITH IMAM MAHDI IN QUR’AN) AND WILL JUDGE HUMAN INCLUDING MUHAMMAD WHO IS STILL IN HIS GRAVE

AND WHAT’S THE USE FOR THE MOSLEM PRAY FOR THEIR HOLY PROPHET MUHAMMAD (IS HE HOLY?). THE FOLLOWERS PRAYING FOR THEIR LEADERS…HOW SAD. IF THE GREAT PROPHET IS NOT IN HEAVEN, HOW POOR ARE HIS FOLLOWERS.

YOU KNOW THE CATHOLIC ASK THE PEOPLE IN HEAVEN TO PRAY FOR THEM AND THAT’S THE WAY IT SHOULD BE, THE SINNERS ASK PRAYERS FROM THE HOLY PEOPLE IN HEAVEN.
IT IS STRANGE IF THE SINNERS PRAY FOR THE HOLY MUHAMMAD( IS HE HOLY?).

JESUS IS HOLY BECAUSE HE IS BORN NOT FROM SPERM BUT FROM HOLY SPIRIT AND HE IS KALIMATULLAH AS QUR’AN SAYS, MEANS SENTENCE OR WORDS OF ALLAH.
THAT KIND OF PERSON MUST BE THE HOLY ONE.


#6

[quote=ronald]SO HE IS IN GRAVE NOT IN HEAVEN. DON’T YOU THINK THAT JESUS IS IN HIS GRAVE NOW BECAUSE HE WILL COME FROM HEAVEN ( WITH IMAM MAHDI IN QUR’AN) AND WILL JUDGE HUMAN INCLUDING MUHAMMAD WHO IS STILL IN HIS GRAVE

AND WHAT’S THE USE FOR THE MOSLEM PRAY FOR THEIR HOLY PROPHET MUHAMMAD (IS HE HOLY?). THE FOLLOWERS PRAYING FOR THEIR LEADERS…HOW SAD. IF THE GREAT PROPHET IS NOT IN HEAVEN, HOW POOR ARE HIS FOLLOWERS.

YOU KNOW THE CATHOLIC ASK THE PEOPLE IN HEAVEN TO PRAY FOR THEM AND THAT’S THE WAY IT SHOULD BE, THE SINNERS ASK PRAYERS FROM THE HOLY PEOPLE IN HEAVEN.
IT IS STRANGE IF THE SINNERS PRAY FOR THE HOLY MUHAMMAD( IS HE HOLY?).

JESUS IS HOLY BECAUSE HE IS BORN NOT FROM SPERM BUT FROM HOLY SPIRIT AND HE IS KALIMATULLAH AS QUR’AN SAYS, MEANS SENTENCE OR WORDS OF ALLAH.
THAT KIND OF PERSON MUST BE THE HOLY ONE.
[/quote]

yes, in his grave, just like every other human being that has died - including all other prophets and messengers. this is what we musilms believe.

as for jesus, then we don’t believe he is dead - that’s why he’s not in his grave. we don’t even believe he died like you believe. to add to that, we don’t even believe he was crucified, like you believe.

as for followers praying for their leaders being sad, Allah tells us in the Quran to ask for forgiveness for the those who preceded us in faith. and we ask Allah to shower His blessings upon all His prophets and messengers. i fail to see how that can be sad. asking for these things are considered good deeds, and the more you do it, the more deeds you accumulate. there’s nothing sad about that.

as for what you mention about the people in heaven, muslims don’t believe that anyone is in paradise yet. paradise will be populated after the day of judgement. muslims also believe that the dead cannot hear you, so asking them to pray for us is useless because those prayers fall on ears that cannot hear. people who waste their time doing such things… now that’s what’s really sad :nope:.


#7

[font=Century Gothic]Why exactly do you not believe that Jesus was crucified?

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#8

[font=Trebuchet MS]as for jesus, then we don’t believe he is dead - that’s why he’s not in his grave. we don’t even believe he died like you believe. to add to that, we don’t even believe he was crucified, like you believe.

[/font]

A great error of Muhammad. How will you then believe Muhammad? He didn’t even walk on earth with Jesus.

As for the Apostles, they are more credible witnesses than Muhammad because they’ve seen Him, heard Him, touched Him, appeared to them after his resurrection. They were his personal friends. As for Muhammad? N-O-N-E of the above. He just wrote what he knows, not what he saw and heard.

Pio


#9

[font=Trebuchet MS]yes, in his grave, just like every other human being that has died - including all other prophets and messengers. this is what we musilms believe.

as for jesus, then we don’t believe he is dead - that’s why he’s not in his grave. we don’t even believe he died like you believe. to add to that, we don’t even believe he was crucified, like you believe.

r.gonzales,

I thought Muhammad is greater prophet than Jesus. In the above sense, Jesus is in heaven while Muhammad is in his grave?

Allah must have highly favored Jesus over Muhammad, therefore, Jesus is the Great Prophet! You must then pray to Jesus, don’t you?

Pio

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#10

[quote=r.gonzales] muslims don’t believe that anyone is in paradise yet. http://forum.catholic.com/images/smilies/ani/no.gif.

[/quote]

Bukhari: V5B59N377
**“A man came to the Prophet and said, ‘Can you tell me where I will go if I get martyred?’ The Prophet replied, ‘To Paradise.’ The man fought till he was martyred.” **


#11

[quote=Booklover][font=Century Gothic]Why exactly do you not believe that Jesus was crucified?
[/quote]

because Allah tells us in the Quran, “and [because of] their statement (i.e., the jews’ saying) ‘indeed, we killed the messiah, jesus son of mary, Allah’s messenger.’ and they did not kill him, and they did not crucify him, however, it seemed so to them and indeed, those who differed in it are surely in doubt about it. they do not have any knowledge of it, except [that they are] followers of speculation and they did not kill him, with certainty.” (4:157)

[quote=hlgomez]A great error of Muhammad. How will you then believe Muhammad? He didn’t even walk on earth with Jesus.

As for the Apostles, they are more credible witnesses than Muhammad because they’ve seen Him, heard Him, touched Him, appeared to them after his resurrection. They were his personal friends. As for Muhammad? N-O-N-E of the above. He just wrote what he knows, not what he saw and heard.
[/quote]

well, since prophet muhammad received the Quran from Allah, the error must be His, huh? prophet muhammad didn’t write the Quran and i’ve already provided sufficient evidence of his being illiterate.

as for these “apostles” who are they? as i mentioned in the other thread, their identities (i.e., who they were, where they were born, their upbringings, their times of death, their trustworthiness, truthfulness and reliability, etc.) aren’t fully known. that doesn’t really make for credible witnesses now, does it? first names are no where sufficient enough to identify a person… as for your claim that they all were his personal friends, wasn’t john supposed to be a greek who wasn’t even alive during jesus’ time?

[quote=hlgomez]I thought Muhammad is greater prophet than Jesus. In the above sense, Jesus is in heaven while Muhammad is in his grave?
[/quote]

and being dead in one’s grave automatically makes one lesser than someone who is still alive? what kind of reasoning and logic is that? prophet muhammad’s companions are greater than any of the muslims alive… just as prophet jesus’ companions are greater than anyone of his followers that came after them. prophet muhammad is the greatest of the prophets and messengers because of the message he brought and who he was sent to give it to. he is the greatest because he fulfilled his mission in such a short amount of time (23 years), whereas other propehts and messengers took a lot longer to fulfil theirs (i.e., noah who called his people for 900+ years) and he is the greatest due to the number of blessings bestowed upon him by his Lord.

[quote=hlgomez]Allah must have highly favored Jesus over Muhammad, therefore, Jesus is the Great Prophet! You must then pray to Jesus, don’t you?
[/quote]

for argument’s sake, let’s say your reasoning and logic were legit here and you’re correct, muhammad is a lesser prophet than jesus. we muslims would still not pray to jesus as we don’t pray to any created being. we pray to Allah and to Allah alone, we still wouldn’t be claiming He has a son or that He was one of three or anything like that.

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#12

[quote=selvaraj]Bukhari: V5B59N377
**“A man came to the Prophet and said, ‘Can you tell me where I will go if I get martyred?’ The Prophet replied, ‘To Paradise.’ The man fought till he was martyred.” **
[/quote]

nowhere in this hadeeth does it say that they will go to paradise at the moment of their death.


#13

[font=Trebuchet MS]as for these “apostles” who are they? as i mentioned in the other thread, their identities (i.e., who they were, where they were born, their upbringings, their times of death, their trustworthiness, truthfulness and reliability, etc.) aren’t fully known. that doesn’t really make for credible witnesses now, does it? first names are no where sufficient enough to identify a person… as for your claim that they all were his personal friends, wasn’t john supposed to be a greek who wasn’t even alive during jesus’ time?

r.gonzales,

Did you study ancient names and the development of family names? The use of family names wasn’t a common practice in the ancient times. They rather rely on the meaning of the person’s name rather than the family name.

And where did you get the notion that John was a greek and wasn’t alive during Jesus time?:smiley: You must be a mystic?

Pio[/font]


#14

[font=Trebuchet MS]that doesn’t really make for credible witnesses now, does it?

Am I talking to a credible Muhammad witness here?

Someody here by the name of r.gonzales is telling us that Muhammad receive the Quran from God. Where are your witnesses, then, r.gonzales?

Pio[/font]


#15

[font=Trebuchet MS]and being dead in one’s grave automatically makes one lesser than someone who is still alive? what kind of reasoning and logic is that?

r.gonzales,

Rather, being in ones grave makes him lesser than the one who rose from the dead.

Pio[/font]


#16

[font=Trebuchet MS]for argument’s sake, let’s say your reasoning and logic were legit here and you’re correct, muhammad is a lesser prophet than jesus. we muslims would still not pray to jesus as we don’t pray to any created being. we pray to Allah and to Allah alone, we still wouldn’t be claiming He has a son or that He was one of three or anything like that.

That’s your never-ending argument making Jesus Christ a “created” being, so i will not stop your head-spinning arguments here.

If you pray to Allah alone, then don’t mention Muhammad in your plea to God, OK? (probably you don’t, so that’s OK).

Now, keep on limiting God’s identity by your own reasoning of who He is. I keep telling you that human mind is so limited to comprehend the Creator. Have you ever think about it? Your mind can not be seen from the space because it’s so tiny? Put it at the center of the universe… do you see it now? Even the earth can’t be seen. And you still are trying to comprehend God by your reasoning? Pardon me but you must be a* god,* but your hand is too short to box with God.:slight_smile:

Pio

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#17

[quote=hlgomez]Did you study ancient names and the development of family names? The use of family names wasn’t a common practice in the ancient times. They rather rely on the meaning of the person’s name rather than the family name.
[/quote]

although family names weren’t in common use back then, i’m pretty sure the use of “son of so and so” was… i.e., jesus bin mary, or muhammad bin 'abdillah. just how in your bible, there is a couple of lineages for jesus. this is how people would identify themselves back then. and this is the way many muslims identify themselves still today.

[quote=hlgomez]And where did you get the notion that John was a greek and wasn’t alive during Jesus time?:smiley: You must be a mystic?
[/quote]

no, not a mystic. it’s something i remembered from a documentary… and… if i’m wrong, tell me then, who was he and where was he from (along with the evidence to support your claims please)? :thumbsup:

[quote=hlgomez]Am I talking to a credible Muhammad witness here?

Someody here by the name of r.gonzales is telling us that Muhammad receive the Quran from God. Where are your witnesses, then, r.gonzales?
[/quote]

ha :clapping: . come on gomez, you’re going to have to come up with a better reply than that…

the testimonies of those who accompanied prophet muhammad and witnessed the revelation being revealed are recorded in history. it’s there for you to accept or reject.

[quote=hlgomez]Rather, being in ones grave makes him lesser than the one who rose from the dead.
[/quote]

if he died in the first place… which we don’t believe.

[quote=hlgomez]If you pray to Allah alone, then don’t mention Muhammad in your plea to God, OK? (probably you don’t, so that’s OK).
[/quote]

what the heck are you talking about??? :confused:

[quote=hlgomez]Now, keep on limiting God’s identity by your own reasoning of who He is. I keep telling you that human mind is so limited to comprehend the Creator. Have you ever think about it? Your mind can not be seen from the space because it’s so tiny? Put it at the center of the universe… do you see it now? Even the earth can’t be seen. And you still are trying to comprehend God by your reasoning? Pardon me but you must be a* god,* but your hand is too short to box with God.:slight_smile:
[/quote]

i’m sorry, but the more i read your posts, the less sense they make to me.

btw, just curious, but is english your first language?


#18

You keep saying Mohammed didn’t write the Qur’an and that he was illiterate! How did he get the Qur’an then? Did it just fall out of the sky and hit him on the head or what? I suppose you mean that though being illiterate, it was dictated to him and he wrote it down.

That still is no proof! We still have only Mohammed’s own word for all this. If he was really illiterate, he could have had someone else write all this down for him. Your supposed proof if no proof!

as for these “apostles” who are they? as i mentioned in the other thread, their identities (i.e., who they were, where they were born, their upbringings, their times of death, their trustworthiness, truthfulness and reliability, etc.) aren’t fully known. that doesn’t really make for credible witnesses now, does it? first names are no where sufficient enough to identify a person… as for your claim that they all were his personal friends, wasn’t john supposed to be a greek who wasn’t even alive during jesus’ time?

So now you cast aspersions on the apostles! So according to you they’re not trustworthy or reliable. Really, there is no limit to what Muslims will try to disprove what we believe. For someone who claims to have been a Christian, you don’t really know much at all. John and his brother James are the sons of Zebedee who are sometimes called “the sons of thunder”. John sat next to Jesus at the last supper, was at the foot of the cross when Jesus was crucified, and it was to John’s care that Jesus left his Mother Mary!

Whenever I read the “proofs” of your claims the more incredible I find them. They absolutely boggle the mind. There’s no rhyme or reason to any of it!


#19

[quote=Booklover]You keep saying Mohammed didn’t write the Qur’an and that he was illiterate! How did he get the Qur’an then? Did it just fall out of the sky and hit him on the head or what? I suppose you mean that though being illiterate, it was dictated to him and he wrote it down.

That still is no proof! We still have only Mohammed’s own word for all this. If he was really illiterate, he could have had someone else write all this down for him. Your supposed proof if no proof!
[/quote]

it’s obvious that you don’t know much about how the Quran was revealed and how it was preserved.

the Quran was revealed as a recitation, hence the name Quran - which literally means “reading” or “recital”. it was revealed over a period of 23 years, not all at once. he would recite what was revealed to him and his companions would memorise or write down what was revealed as it came. after his death, the verses or the Quran were gathered and compiled into one book during the reign of his first successor, aboo bakr. during the reign of his third successor, uthmaan, who was also one of prophet muhammad’s closest companions, the Quran was recompiled and the verses and chapters put into their proper orders - this is the book we have with us today.

prophet muhammad was illiterate, just as it is mentioned in the Quran and by his cousin, abdullah bin abbaas in authentic reports. he had scribes that would write down the revelation as it was revealed, along with his words and teachings. all of this has been preserved and can easily be verified.

[quote=Booklover]So now you cast aspersions on the apostles! So according to you they’re not trustworthy or reliable. Really, there is no limit to what Muslims will try to disprove what we believe. For someone who claims to have been a Christian, you don’t really know much at all. John and his brother James are the sons of Zebedee who are sometimes called “the sons of thunder”. John sat next to Jesus at the last supper, was at the foot of the cross when Jesus was crucified, and it was to John’s care that Jesus left his Mother Mary!

Whenever I read the “proofs” of your claims the more incredible I find them. They absolutely boggle the mind. There’s no rhyme or reason to any of it!

[/quote]

not i, dear booklover… these “aspersions” have been “cast” long before i even registered to these forums… and the issue of the authors of the gospels wasn’t an issue brought up by muslims to discredit your faith either…

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_John

The Gospel of John is the fourth gospel in the sequence of the canon as printed in the New Testament, and scholars agree it was the fourth to be written. Like the other three gospels, it contains an account of the life of Jesus.

The Church Fathers believed only The Gospel of John and Authentic Matthew to be written by disciples of Jesus. The Gospel of John is the most divergent of the four. While the “beloved disciple,” who is traditionally identified as John the Apostle, has previously been regarded as the author, this is now disputed.

seems like you don’t read much of the criticisms against your religion.


#20

and when you throw the concept of Hadith into the mix on which a whole lot of muslim doctrine is based, the mind boggles !

There is apparenty a science of the Hadith whereby a Hadith is classified as Strong or Weak !

and these very same people who can’t even decide if a hadith is ‘strong’ or ‘weak’ come here and make ridiculuous statements like

as for these “apostles” who are they? as i mentioned in the other thread, their identities (i.e., who they were, where they were born, their upbringings, their times of death, their trustworthiness, truthfulness and reliability, etc.) aren’t fully known. that doesn’t really make for credible witnesses now, does it


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