If you bring the universe into it how can you say it is not an abstraction?
There’s always a dimension of marriage that’s a closed book to the kids (my parents’ marriage continues to be a mystery to me), but there is going to be a side of it that the kids will see and hear that the pastor won’t.
People generally don’t confess terrible things that were done TO them, or terrible things they do that are ongoing.
PS That was quite rude.
It’s [edit: the Eucharist] God and God is not an abstraction.
The universe is God?
The universe is a gift from God, given to the family.
It’s not spam. It was in reference to “the universe is God?”
At my parish, the priest who is responsible for marriage counseling is married himself. A married deacon is also available for marriage counseling. The celibate priests don’t provide marriage counseling and I think the parishioners find this to be a good set up.
These analogies and comparisons are off the chart. Marriage to a spouse and marriage to the Church while having some possible similarities, share nothing when it comes to intimacy that relates to insight in marriage.
While Eucharist is also an intimate sacrament, it also cannot be compared to marriage to another mortal human being in a way that provides insight into marriage. Your comparisons are tenuous. And I am not sure why you are advancing them. If you believe married people ought to confide more or seek counsel more from priests that is fine. I would agree. But not because most priests know more about marriage than they do. But rather, a priest can assist with more spiritual reflection on the married person’s experience of their marriage.
“off the charts”
Indeed; that’s how beautiful the Eucharist is…off the charts love, off the charts union with us.
You need to get some better understanding of what marriage is, what the Church teaches about marriage and the Eucharist.
Marriage is an act of union, a conjugal union, it is a foretaste of the union that God desires with each of us.
God seeks daily union with us, not just union with us in heaven.
God offers all Catholics a taste of this divine union not just in marriage, which is a form of communion, but also in the Eucharist.
The union we get with Eucharist is infinitely greater than we get in marriage.
Read up on both Holy Communion, but also on Holy Matrimony, until you see the far deeper connection and unity between them. That’s why they are both Sacraments, allowing us to share in the divine life of the Trinity.
Off the charts indeed, and you had no idea about this. Fortuitous use of the word.
You need not be so condescending and pedantic. I have been married 25 years. I have pretty good idea about what marriage actually is. I also realize what an awesome and mystical gift the Eucharist is, as well as the Church.
But they have significant differences.
From my perspective, marriage requires a great deal of patience, forgiveness, maturity, self giving in very concrete and practical ways in which one can and will be held accountable by the spouse. Can that be said about Eucharist? We would like to think so because that is what God calls us to. But what is missing is the daily face to face, in the flesh encounter with something that is not a matter of faith and belief so much as it is another person who can give us immediate response whether we desire it or not. But you have dug your heals in and doubled down for some inexplicable reason .
I don’t care about your marriage, sorry. This subthread isn’t about your particular marriage.
I am telling you what the Church teaches about the sacraments of marriage and the Eucharist…they both bring us toward unity with God in different ways, the most profound way is through the Eucharist.
The Eucharist is the true source for all love in the world, for your little acts of patience and self-giving, and for that pagan’s little acts of patience. The presence of God in the world via the Eucharist is the SOURCE of all love.
That’s how big the Eucharist is. We are not capable of loving without it.
Receiving, and receiving it well disposed is food for our love in our marriage. It provides the strength we need to live our marriages with the heart of Christ.
Edward, you’re taking it personally now. You seem to want to control other posters when you write things like that.
The marriages of other posters enrich this conversation and add depth.
Stop please with the unasked for couch talk.
As OP I am trying to keep this on track and not have it meander off into “but I’m special” issues.
I’m not seeing it.
An excellent post and how true! The Eucharist is God, who is perfect, without blemish, all-loving, all-life giving, etc. Even the most perfect human spouse can’t be what God is.
I agree about counseling from a priest. It’s value derives not from the priest knowing more about marriage, but from his ability to provide spiritual guidance and neutrality.
I agree with you totally.
Exactly, You are not talking about particular, concrete, daily lived marriage. You are talking about an intellectual abstraction.
Which cannot be compared to a living, breathing, flesh-and-blood marriage partner with all the good and not-so-good qualities every marriage partner possesses.