Motu Proprio Norms for Florida

The Norms for the Tridentine Latin Mass have been posted for the dioceses in Florida. Here is a link from the Diocese of Pensacola-Tallahassee’s website:

ptdiocese.org/PageView.asp?edit_id=690&Org_id=1&R=Y

Okay - well then we can all hope in accordance with the wishes of the bishop that EVERY SINGLE DIOCESAN SEMINARY in florida will make the learning of Latin Mandatory so that any priest who wishes to, according to the MP, may celebrate it. :rolleyes:

I think these days it’s just best to ignore the diocese concerning the TLM - the pope gave us permission that’s enough.

Catholig

I’m in that diocese.

I hope, at least, that it can be celebrated somewhere in my part of the diocese. Right now, it’s only available in Pensacola and only once a month.

Ask your parish priest if he’ll celebrate it, and get your family and friends to ask for it too… Give him links to websites such as www.sanctamissa.org, and Simplicissimus.

Catholig

Thanks for the links. :thumbsup:

Architecturally speaking, my parish is well set up for the Latin Mass.

How many priests do you have?
Also know that if you do have a “stable group” of the faithful at your parish (lets just say 50 now because that is the number that you bishop thinks appropriate :rolleyes:) and your priest cannot or will not allow for it then, you proceed to ask the bishop for a priest to come and celebrate it, and if he doesn’t answer favorably you proceed to the Ecclesia Dei commision.

Catholig

Two priests officially assigned to the parish, although 2 more help out. I go to the co-cathedral in Tallahassee.

No bishop has the authority is promulgate “norms” that contradict or restrict the norms laid down by Benedict XVI.

Bishops don’t have veto power over the pope; it’s the other way round.

I attend the Co-Cathedral, too, and have been in regular contact with the chancery office.

I will be forming a study group very soon to see if there is a legit interest in having a Tridentine Latin Mass in our part of the diocese. If there is a good response, then we can approach our good monsignor and see what can be done.

And you are right in saying that the Co-Cathedral is perfect for a TLM!

The Apostolic Letter is clear that the extraordinary form is NOT to be celebrated in any way during the Easter Triduum – from the Evening Mass of the Lord’s Supper on Holy Thursday through Evening Prayer of Easter Sunday.

The Bishop erred here. Only PRIVATE celebrations of the Extraordinary Form are forbidden.

A parish may still schedule PUBLIC celebrations.

Having read the MP several times, it would appear that the rules laid out herein are within the authority of the bishop. They do not appear to contradict anything in the MP, nor do they appear to restrict it. Perhaps you feel differently?

Perhaps, and perhaps not. If there is to be only one Mass on Holy Thursday, then it would seem to fall within the guidelines of the MP, would it not?

It would seem the only exception would be a parish that was only using the Missal of 1962 exclusively.

The MP says -

Art. 2. In Missis sine populo celebratis, quilibet sacerdos catholicus ritus latini, sive saecularis sive religiosus, uti potest aut Missali Romano a beato Papa Ioanne XXIII anno 1962 edito, aut Missali Romano a Summo Pontifice Paulo VI anno 1970 promulgato, et quidem qualibet die, excepto Triduo Sacro. Ad talem celebrationem secundum unum alterumve Missale, sacerdos nulla eget licentia, nec Sedis Apostolicae nec Ordinarii sui.

These “norms” say -

Only priests who are qualified may celebrate the extraordinary form of the Mass and the sacraments, even privately. Those qualified must evidence ability with the Latin language as well as the rubrics for the proper celebration of the Mass in the extraordinary form. The Bishop of the Diocese reserves to himself the authority to determine whether a priest is qualified to celebrate Mass and the other sacraments using the extraordinary form.

Catholig

Essentially what this document says is that any priest who wishes to celebrate the Tridentine Mass has to demonstrate that he knows Latin, and that any bishop can reserve judgement as to whether or not the priest is qualified. This is contrary to the Motu Proprio, which says that ANY CATHOLIC PRIEST OF THE LATIN RITE can celebrate it in private.

Catholig

They got the “Triduum” thing absolutely wrong. Someone needs to contact the PCED immediately to let them know of this Diocese misreading the MP.

The MP states that the TLM cannot be celebrated IN PRIVATE during the Triduum, not that it cannot be celebrated in public. This is the same requirement as always was with the TLM or the Novus Ordo- that THEY BOTH CANNOT BE CELEBRATED PRIVATELY DURING THE TRIDUUM.

Art. 2. In Masses celebrated without the people, any priest of Latin rite, whether secular or religious, can use the Roman Missal published by Pope Blessed John XXIII in 1962 or the Roman Missal promulgated by the Supreme Pontiff Paul VI in 1970, on any day except in the Sacred Triduum. For celebration in accordance with one or the other Missal, a priest does not require any permission, neither from the Apostolic See nor his own Ordinary.

Article 2 refers to private celebrations ONLY- and for that no priest even needs the approval of the Bishop.

They also do not understand that no Bishop can forbid any priest from using the Roman Missal of 1962. Even if the priest does not understand the Latin words, he intends on doing what the Church intends and therefore the Mass is valid. This has been the constant teaching of the Church and the Diocese has no right to change it- most especially missinterpret what Rome has said until they get clarification from the Holy See Itself.

Ken

No- the parish may use the Extraordinary Form if they choose- even if they have only one Mass on that day- EG - Holy Thursday or Easter Vigil- use the EF instead of the ordinary.

To say that they cannot places the Ordinary Rite as superior. Using the EF is an option with equality to the Ordinary- any form can be used even if only one Mass is offered on one day.

Ken

From Rome the Latin version reads as follows:

Art. 2. In Missis sine populo celebratis,quilibet sacerdos catholicus ritus latini, sive saecularis sive religiosus, uti potest aut Missali Romano a beato Papa Ioanne XXIII anno 1962 edito, aut Missali Romano a Summo Pontifice Paulo VI anno 1970 promulgato, et quidem qualibet die, excepto Triduo Sacro. Ad talem celebrationem secundum unum alterumve Missale, sacerdos nulla eget licentia, nec Sedis Apostolicae nec Ordinarii sui.

From ZENIT the translation in English:
Art. 2. In Masses celebrated without the people, each Catholic priest of the Latin rite, whether secular or regular, may use the Roman Missal published by Blessed Pope John XXIII in 1962, or the Roman Missal promulgated by Pope Paul VI in 1970, and may do so on any day with the exception of the Easter Triduum. For such celebrations, with either one Missal or the other, the priest has no need for permission from the Apostolic See or from his ordinary.

Note: Article #2 deals with PRIVATE CELEBRATIONS ONLY.

A priest can use the 1962 Missal for a “mass without the people” (but some can attend if they want to) and the Bishop cannot forbid the use of the 1962 Missal AT ALL. I mean what priest would even want to jump into the 1962 Missal if he did not understand it witout learning first anyway.

Ken

I sent the Most Rev. Bishop John H. Ricard SSJ an e-mail.

Catholig

Article 5 Section 4: Priests who use the Missal of Bl. John XXIII must be qualified to do so and not juridically impeded.

Nothing therein says that the priest is the sole determinant of his own qualifications.

Further, while ARticle 5 Section 1 speaks to teh public use of the Missal, Article 4 does not say “one who uses it publicly”; simply, “one who uses it”.

I agree with your last point, but see my post re: Article 5 Section 4. I read that the priest does not have to have permission to say the Mass privately; but Section 4 indicates that he must be qualified; and the final arbiter of qualifications is the bishop; that would be appealable only subject to a factual matter.

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