multicultured lands, the chrisianity's doom?


my land, norway, was a normal christian land, but now because of vast numbers of islamic outlanders the christianity have fallen greatly in many difrent ways, like lazyness rediscovered paganbelives (viking myth) to much erotic on internett children with bad language islamic threats (outside trough media) and extremely undisiplined youth on schools.

what happned? is god planing a new main religion? have he abandoned scandinavia? is islam really the main threat agains christianity and catholics alike? why wont the lord almighty save hes belivers by new miracles or a new messiah? (we could really need jesus today), what does it really takes to make the people visit the churches again?! its only almost old people visiting the church these days and when they go to heaven then what? will they maybe rebuild the “useless” churces into museums or something? just admitt it, the fait in europe is sinking fast and what will then happen to us when people start fearing death and only belives in imortallity trough science like improving their bodys all the time, will armaggeddon soon be upon us? ive heard it will be on 2029, cause of a meteor on mars size will collide with us, if that so then im pleased to NOT experience the slow rotting feeling inside me that the faith in the creater that we all owe our loyalty too will perish as nothing more than a fairytale in a book!


I’ll be honest Nils, it’s not looking good. America is not far behind Europe, but Europe is essentially completely lost and should be considered evengelization territory. It’s depressing I know, and honestly I don’t know why God doesn’t do anything about it. It seems in the Bible God had a history of setting everything straight when things got too crazy. But we live in an age with no miracles, no parting seas, no smiting the evil ones with fire and brimstone. The Osama Bin Laden’s of the world can commit mass murder and mock us, as the power and might of the entire free world can’t find one man in a cave, emboldening Islamacists.

I wouldn’t worry about Islam though, if anything their effect on your society will create a less wanton environment which is a good thing. Moral relativism is your real enemy. People today are their own God’s, they worship themselves with money, large houses and 2.2 spiritually luke warm, poorly catechized, just as self-absorbed children.

I don’t know what to say to you Nils, Christianity on a whole is teetering in Europe and the world. You know when even the Irish are giving up on the Church you’ve got problems.


Things have looked bad for Christ and the Catholic faith down through the ages, but Christ’s Church, the Catholic Church will never fail. It will be persecuted, it may lose everything it materially possesses, we may have to go into hiding once again to pray, and millions may abandon it, but the Faith will go on and triumph in the end.

Jesus himself asked on his way to Golgotha, “If they do these things in the case of the green wood, what will they do in the dry?” He also asked the rhetorical question: “When the Son of Man returns will he find any faith on the earth?”

God knows the future, and he knows that many will fall away. This is the work of the world, the flesh, and the devil. God allows us to be tempted in every generation to turn our backs on Him or stay faithful to Him. Some generations seem to have greater trials than others, but in reality they are all the same trial–temptations to live just for oneself and not for God and others.

God has not left us, and Jesus is always with us in His Church, especially in the Eucharist. I can see a time coming when people will be tired of living just for themselves or when they are fighting for their intellectual and spiritual freedom against Islamic take over of their countries. Either way, they will want what truly satisfies and what is actually true, and they will once again turn to God and His Church. So, let us pray for that day of restoration while we seem to be riding helplessly along on the tide of relativism and hedonism.


then i wonder why, if this islam is really another version from god then what makes it grow so fast and our own shrinking? if europe would ever turn into islamic main state then everyone will kill if anyone will make a single joke about this muhammed because they improve their kids in their religion for every generasion, and all this documentarys about the bad things of christianity just like the common movie named “deliver us from evil” that is about why the pope still have pedophile priest under work while knowing the danger of perversion, and the old argue about the gay thing, is it all about the morale? because i must admitt that islam have their moral xtremely high after so many years of elvolment, they keep the tradisions upp constantly (god knows what they do to the muslims that dont follow their ways), and about the buddist ive heard and seen tapes where they attack churches and burn them violently because we suddenly are “infidels” too now, i just dont know what to do nor almost belive in, i only want some answers from you god almighty, just some answers and my life may be without troubles (something its fulled with and nothing really helps, and talking about media, making movies where christianity appears as intresting is only as medieval tales, but will christianity end as just “paladins” and “crusaders” used in adventure movies in the future?


I can’t see that it’s even heading in the same direction. America seems to be becoming more conservative (in certain, mostly unfortunate respects) and more religious (again, not necessarily in an orthodox way).

but Europe is essentially completely lost

You can’t be “essentially” completely lost. That’s a misuse of the English language. If Europe is only “essentially” lost then it’s not “completely” lost.

And on what are you basing this? Do you live in Europe or the U.S.? You’re making very confident statements about both. Have you spent a lot of time in both?

and should be considered evengelization territory.

Are you planning to convert the Pope? He’s in Europe, you know.

It’s depressing I know, and honestly I don’t know why God doesn’t do anything about it. It seems in the Bible God had a history of setting everything straight when things got too crazy. But we live in an age with no miracles, no parting seas, no smiting the evil ones with fire and brimstone.

Try Psalm 74. The author felt just as you do. “Bible times” were not always as exciting as you think. Most of the time they were just muddling along like us.



America is not becoming more religious, millions of babies of being murdered yearly, fornication is almost an unspoken norm, Sunday Mass is dropping yet again. They may check Catholic or Christian on the census but that doesn’t make it so.

My apologies professor, grammar police are the worst. But I assume you understood what I was getting at you are just nit-picking to get under my skin for some reason.

Common sense, I mean look around you… And the fact that I don’t bury my head in the sand and make excuses, just ask Nils from Holland if I’m right.

Pointless question, as the Pope is one man amongst millions. Of course the Pope doesn’t need to be evangelized, but since when does there need to be zero Christians in an area for it to require evangelization?

No, there’s never been a time like this in history.


I don’t correct grammar pointlessly. Your confused grammar masks confused thought. You have to decide which you are saying. They’re two different things.

Common sense

Common sense can’t tell you anything about Europe unless you have actual experience.

Is Europe largely secular? Sure. But there are a lot of people in Europe, and that includes a lot of devout Christians.

I probably overstated the case in saying that America is becoming more religious. The statistics on church membership do seem to show a decline, but on the other hand that may just show that people are not formally joining churches. It certainly seems as if evangelical Protestantism is growing rather than declining in power–but that may be my subjective perspective.

Abortion is nothing new, unfortunately. It’s true that cohabitation is accepted, but on the other hand adulterous affairs and promiscuity are probably more frowned on than they were a few decades back. I’ll admit that the signs are mixed. But I think your despairing tone is premature.

Pointless question, as the Pope is one man amongst millions. Of course the Pope doesn’t need to be evangelized, but since when does there need to be zero Christians in an area for it to require evangelization?

For Europe to be “completely lost” there would need to be no Christians there. That’s why your confused language is significant. You want to make a claim that you know perfectly well is false, so you fudge your language.

I think it’s funny for a member of a church with a European headquarters to say that Europe needs to be re-evangelized. It smacks of typical American arrogance. Americans always need to think they have a calling to save the world.

No, there’s never a time like this in history.

I’m not even sure how to respond to a weird claim like that. It’s either obvious (all times are unique) or totally impossible for you and anyone else to verify (in what other eras of history have you lived? Do you have a time machine we don’t know about?)

I intended my recommendation of Psalm 74 as encouragement. Don’t you resonate with this prayer? It sounds just like what you are saying. Isn’t it encouraging to think that even the Biblical writers experienced this? Why do you resist this consolation? Why do you want to wallow? This is not a healthy attitude.

I’m sorry if my way of saying this is insensitive, but I don’t know you personally and I can’t deal with you on that basis. You are a set of words on a screen, and those words seem to indicate a rather disturbed state of mind. If I’m wrong, so much the better. But if I’m right, please get off the Internet and go talk to a wise and holy priest (or layperson) who can give you good counsel.



:sleep: :sleep: :sleep:

I see you live in Europe, and it’s hard to hear the truth that Europe is a moral relativist cesspool. Sorry but that’s the case, I get your agenda now, and I can see your pointless nit-picking for what it is. Don’t get mad at me, get mad at the French with their 14% weekly Mass attendance. Europe is essentially lost, and needs evangelization, that’s exactly what they teach the Indian and African clergy.

Disturbed state of mind? Reading a little too much into this aren’t we? Please guy…

Your own denomination allows openly practicing homosexual Bishops, and you think these times aren’t hitting an all time low? I disagree, Nils disagrees, and most people whose heads aren’t >>>>>>> know it.

I can’t understand why these observations and attacks on me would ever be necessary. Like it or not there are real people behind these keyboards.



I have the same struggle and it may be that Islam is indeed the true faith. Read what Norwegian Mulims have to say as well as what Christian apoligusts, who have as much an agenda have to say. The unity if Islam is appealing and. if you feel that as I do, you need to talk to and read about Muslims. We are not getting the whole picture from either the secular or Christian media.

There is only one true faith - who is not to say it is Islam?


Am I the only one who thinks this whole thread is an “Islam is the true faith” thread in disguise?



On ye guard, knight. :irish1:


from your account, if it is true, it sounds like Skandinavia has abandoned God, not the other way around. Why blame God for the laxity and apostasy of Christians and those charged with their pastoral care?

The main threat against Christianity remains what it has always been: unfaithful, sinful Christians.


no, i think we have Muslims in disguise :wink: people wondering why Islam is increasing should wonder why their birth rates dropped that much in the first place. Islam is increasing, so is Cancer and Aids…our God said narrow is the gate and beware of false prophets like Muhammad.:wink:


I’d love to think you were the only one, but this ridiculous belief seems common around here.

It’s so convenient, isn’t it, to think that anyone who challenges your complacency is a covert agent of some kind?



i traced Rien’s posts and came to this conclusion. I might be wrong though. NO idea about the OP.


I don’t live in Europe. I have spent some time there, however, which you apparently have not. (I am a British citizen but have spent my entire adult life in the U.S.)

All I am saying is that a significant number of devout Christians live in Europe, and that therefore Americans have no business writing Europe off. It’s arrogant and presumptuous, and I stand by that.

Relativist? Oh, yes–actually raising serious just-war issues about American military adventures is “relativist,” isn’t it. . . .

I was in Germany when Bush invaded Iraq, and I heard a lot more straightforward moral reasoning from the Europeans than I did from the “conservative” Americans who supported the war.

Your own denomination allows openly practicing homosexual Bishops, and you think these times aren’t hitting an all time low?

Believe it or not, homosexuality is not the only moral issue out there. . . .



I guess you missed the part that said America isn’t far behind? I have no idea what this inferiority complex comes from. I’m calling it like I see it.

I have no idea what the war in Iraq has anything to do with what we’re discussing here but whatever. And Germany officially is not allowed to comment on war, war crimes, unjust wars for at least another two hundred years being their recent wars in Europe killed probably more than 100 million people. 12 million of those in cold blood and deliberate attempts to eradicate entire races of people. I believe it’s actually a U.N. resolution that Germany must keep their mouths shut on any and all war matters. In fact Europe in general has engulfed the entire globe in war more times than can be counted, the entire Continent really just needs to shut up IMO. They’ve become an Islamicized, feminized, continent full of whiners.


I would offer you this advice


If you really believe that the Churches are simply full of the old, but you still believe they have the truth, why are you not out getting the young into the Churches. We are responsible for our own failings, and one of the biggest failings in both America and Europe is complacentcy. We become complacent in our faith, and soon it becomes nothing more than a cultural thing, like hotdogs, or apple pie, or lutafisk. (sorry, bad attempt at finding something cultural). It can be dropped if you don’t like it.

Truth cannot be dropped. Truth cannot even be put down, Truth steers and directs our lives and sets the world ablaze.

A lone Raven


“Inferiority complex?”
“continent full of whiners?”
“entire Continent really just needs to shut up IMO”
Amusing. You’re entitled to your opinion!
That’s the most positive things I can say to your degrading and ignorant comments.


You have to admit a continent that has immersed the globe in endless war for the past 3,000 years, and its two World Wars in the last century killed 100’s of million of people brutally and mercilessly, crying about the US war in Iraq like it’s the most unjust war since the rape of Nanking is a little but hypocritical no? I disagree with the war in Iraq, but the war machine in Europe has turned to bleeding hearts and whiners, sorry, calling a spade a spade here. Just say thank you, and apolize for the half century of hell on Earth.

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