Multiple popes, nazi support, etc


#1

I am not too familiar with church history. Most of my knowledge has to do with elements of the faith. Can anyone help me address the following accusations …

… The Catholic church has in its past condemned scientists to death for teaching what they had discovered to be reality though it was contrary to church teachings at that time. The Catholic church had at one time three Popes, who are considered infallible when making their church edicts, which all condemned the other two as heretics. Adolf Hitler had an audience with the Pope of his time and received the Pope’s blessing for his proposed solution to the “Jewish problem.” …

… I’m hoping that all of these things can be disproved / explained. Thanks in advance.


#2

since the source you quote provides no documentation or proof for these ridiculous statements, there is no rebuttal. One could take the time to actually study history from reliable sources, but a site that makes outrageous unsubstantiated claims like this is obviously not interested in establishing historical fact, but in trashing the Catholic Church. why are we wasting our time on this?


#3

Well, of course, only one of the popes was real. Even today there are multiple “popes” all condemning each other, but there’s only one real one (Benedict XVI; the others include Michael I, Pius XIII, and a couple more).

The stuff about Hitler is straight out of Jack Chick and totally false. The myth that Pius XII was pro-Nazi has been thoroughly debunked–including by Jewish historians.

As for killing scientists, that’s a new one on me. The Church has always promoted science that can be proven by evidence.


#4

Thanks for your reply. I’ll use some of it directly.

[quote=puzzleannie]since the source you quote provides no documentation or proof for these ridiculous statements, there is no rebuttal. One could take the time to actually study history from reliable sources, but a site that makes outrageous unsubstantiated claims like this is obviously not interested in establishing historical fact, but in trashing the Catholic Church. why are we wasting our time on this?
[/quote]

Why? Because if it isn’t addressed, someone who comes across it and has no opinion one way or the other will walk away with the wrong impression of the Catholic church.


#5

Why? Because if it isn’t addressed, someone who comes across it and has no opinion one way or the other will walk away with the wrong impression of the Catholic church.

I think the main problem is that people who believe such things without proof are unlikely to be persuaded by ACTUAL proof to the contrary.

I’ll let you find sources you think are appropriate, but I can assure you of the following:

  1. There have always been multiple claimants to the Papacy, but only one has been considered valid at any time. The incident being refered to is when there was an actual Schism WITHIN the Church over who was Pope, but it was settled amicably with two Popes disregarded and the true one stepping down and allowing for a new election. The incident actually did more to strengthen people’s understanding of the Papacy if anything. Find out more here.

  2. “Hitler’s Pope” is such an insidious and evil lie that it gets my blood boiling whenever I hear it. Pope Pius XII, the Pope in question, should be a sain, IMO, and was considered by the Jews of the day to be the greatest, and sometimes ONLY, true supporter of theirs. Israel Zolli, the Chief Rabbi of Rome during the Holocaust, even became Catholic after the war (obviously due to personal conversion, but the point remains that he was very familiar with the actions of the Church during the Shoah). The lie only gained weight in recent years, and is nothing but a total myth. Internal documents by the Nazi Party indicate that the Catholic Church, espescially due to Pius XII, was one of the most hated organizations, and was constantly undermining them. They hated the Church with a passion precisely because not only did the Church stand up against their political ideology, but specifically and directly aided the Jews. Critics point to Pius XII’s public “silence” (which itself is a myth, as he wrote a homily to be read at all Masses in 1938 absolutely condemning any kind of anti-semitism whatsoever), but whatever “silence” he gave was purely to throw the spotlight off of the relatively immense underground operation to save Jews. Here are some articles on the subject. In my humble opinion, the man should be canonized for his actions to save Jews alone.

As for the scientist issue, they’d have to provide proof. The only scientist I’m aware of who was put on trial by the Church was Galileo, and that was for saying that science disproved Church teaching, not for actually putting forth scientific theories that went against traditional Church views. Galileo, an elderly man, was sentanced to house-arrest in Rome (he had argued that he was too sick to leave his home to come to the trial, after all), house arrest meaning being confined to the home of an Archbishop and later his own home, in all cases with a full staff of servants. He was also allowed to continue his scientific work. Not actually such a bad sentance for a sick, elderly man. His trial is well documented, and it’s the only one I know of. Otherwise, the Church has been extremely supportive of the sciences; it was a Catholic priest, Fr. Lemaitre, who developed the Big Bang Theory for example.

God bless!


#6

Thank you. Your reply was EXCELLENT.

[quote=Ghosty]I think the main problem is that people who believe such things without proof are unlikely to be persuaded by ACTUAL proof to the contrary.
[/quote]

I’m thinking more of the folks who don’t know one way or the other. If they hear only one side of something, that is what they will walk away with. If I provide a rebuttal, then they will at least see a second side of things and there will be room for doubt.


#7

Hey SK! Good to see that you’re still in those trenches my friend! You’re also in my prayers.

I wanted to point out a great post by our dear Jewish friend Stillsmallvoice here on CAF that will perhaps answer the Nazi trash allegation against His Holiness.

Look what the Jerusalem Post has to say about it!
Here’s the original article
Pax tecum,


#8

[quote=Sir Knight]I am not too familiar with church history. Most of my knowledge has to do with elements of the faith. Can anyone help me address the following accusations … … I’m hoping that all of these things can be disproved / explained. Thanks in advance.
[/quote]

Sir Knight - Why not become familiar with Church history? Read, read, read; especially anything by Hilair Beloc (go to TAN Publications) and also read “Triumph: The Power and the Glory of the Catholic Church” and “How the Church Built Western Civilization.”


#9

[quote=Church Militant]Hey SK! Good to see that you’re still in those trenches my friend! You’re also in my prayers.

I wanted to point out a great post by our dear Jewish friend Stillsmallvoice here on CAF that will perhaps answer the Nazi trash allegation against His Holiness.

Look what the Jerusalem Post has to say about it!
Here’s the original article
Pax tecum,
[/quote]

Thank you my friend. Been off-line the past few weeks preparing for the [World Wide Fatima Day of Prayer at the Blue Army Shrine in Washington, NJ …

http://www.bluearmy.com/mmol_newest_1.jpg](http://www.bluearmy.com/index.html)

… it was a memorible event held in several places across America and (if I am not mistaken) in 26 countries across the world.


#10

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