Mum said don't listen to everything the church says


#1

8th of December: Feast of the Immaculate Conception.
I picked up a flyer on the church foyer table with an explanation of the Pope placing an indulgence on the feast.
Mum read it.

A few days later, as i was hopping out of the car to go to daily mass, mum and i had a little talk.
She said she had never heard of indulgences before then.
She said that i am young (17), and suceptible to suggestion.
She said that there are church rules, and god’s rules.
She said not to listen to everything the church says.

How am I, as her son, supposed to put her in her place, to correct her?
She should know what indulgences are…
I was going to ask her mother if she knew…

I don’t know what to do…
She thinks i go to far with my faith.
Going to mass every day (which has been subsiding because of need of sleep), spending so much time reading…

I know not…

Has anyone else had the same thing?


#2

In my experience there are few things that rile parents more than when their kids take their faith more seriously than they do.

Of course, you do not “put her in her place.” Go easy. Keep in mind that her generation suffered from the worst negligence in catechesis known to the church in the past hundred and fifty years.
You might print out the CA tract “Primer on Indulgences” for her. You might also give her "Myths about Indulgences."
Good luck. Don’t push too hard.


#3

If you think your grandmother will support you and the Church, by all means, let her set your mother straight.:wink:


#4

Yes. I have a similar problem… my mother was misinformed by my supposedly very Catholic uncle, that she didn’t need to go to Confession because Jesus would forgive her in the first place. But she hasn’t been, and living with her, I know that there were mortal sins in the process.

I am deeply torn by that, and I told my mother that she needed to go to Confession and confess, but after that, she refused and I now go to Mass by myself.

It is so hard for me to witness people whom I know have committed mortal sins to partake of the Holy Eucharist, and refuse to go to confession.

If I were in your shoes, God had given us the Holy Spirit, and the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit on faith and morals. Remember Matthew 16:18-19…


#5

Thank you everyone.

Mercygate,
Why did her generation suffer the worst chatechesis in 150 years?
Because of Vatican 2?

She also seems to be of the opinion that missing mass is not a mortal sin, and that regular confession is not needed since she confesses her sins at mass, when the confetior (sp?) is said.

I don’t know why she thinks that…


#6

[quote=Nekić]Thank you everyone.

Mercygate,
Why did her generation suffer the worst chatechesis in 150 years?
Because of Vatican 2?

She also seems to be of the opinion that missing mass is not a mortal sin, and that regular confession is not needed since she confesses her sins at mass, when the confetior (sp?) is said.

I don’t know why she thinks that…
[/quote]

It’s more correct to say the so-called “spirit of Vatican ll” contributed to the poor catechesis of that period. Whenever you hear that phrase, be on your guard, as the “spirit of Vatican ll” often signals dissent. Vatican ll, properly understood, was not to blame.

Your mother is simply wrong. Missing Mass is a mortal sin, provided the usual three conditions are met. Also, mortal sins do require the confessional, and are not absolved at Mass.

Pray for your Mum.


#7

I think the difference between you and your Mum is that you trust firmly in the Church, which means that you trust firmly in Jesus (He who hears you hears me). It is not necessary that a Catholic understand the teaching on each and every subject in theology. What is important is that you know what each teaching is and that you trust that the Church has the authority of Jesus to teach such a thing. This is what I think is lacking from your mum. And so I think that teaching her about indulgences would be a band-aid solution, as it doesn’t really strike at the root of the problem. The root of the problem is that she isn’t a faithful Catholic! Instead, I would try to teach her about the Truthfulness of the Catholic Church. The authority of the Pope, the Apostolic Succession and the consistent doctrine of the Church throughout the ages are all good witnesses to the Truth of the Church. Then if she has the time, going through several objections to the Church (such as indulgences), and showing her how the teachings of the Church all make reasonable sense should hopefully show her in time that all of these objections to the Church can be reasonably explained.


#8

Don’t listen to everything mum says


#9

[quote=MrS]Don’t listen to everything mum says
[/quote]

PRAY FOR HER … MUMS are not always right! :eek: :eek:


#10

[quote=Sherlock]It’s more correct to say the so-called “spirit of Vatican ll” contributed to the poor catechesis of that period. Whenever you hear that phrase, be on your guard, as the “spirit of Vatican ll” often signals dissent. Vatican ll, properly understood, was not to blame.

Your mother is simply wrong. Missing Mass is a mortal sin, provided the usual three conditions are met. Also, mortal sins do require the confessional, and are not absolved at Mass.

Pray for your Mum.
[/quote]

Thanks, Sherlock. That is exactly how I would have answered the question.

There is probably a pithy little book you could leave lying around the house to parallel the audio series, Does the Church Still Teach That?


#11

Nekic,

Love your family. Remember that submission to authority is a moral duty. Not just the authority of the Church, but also your parents. (Of course, God comes first, but… you know that.)

Most people, Catholics included, assume that indulgences disappeared after the reformation. Not that there were abuses with indulgences, but that indulgences themselves were the abuse. I wanted to correct this thinking in my European history class, but I didn’t know enough so I (wisely) kept my mouth shut.

It is true that young people are, in general, naive. I feel like a traitor to all teenagers everywhere saying that, but it is the truth.

It’s also true that young people, in general, go through phases. Your mother may perceive this “catholic” thing as just another phase you will go through while growing up. And with some things - love of Gregorian chant, for example - it’s okay for it to be a phase. Other things - love of God - have to stay.

It is true that people in the Church have done stupid and idiotic things. If you don’t believe me, talk to a protestant. Or, heck, talk to a Catholic - Martin Luther was a priest.

Do you have a driver’s license, or do you live walking distance from the church? Parents (in general) do not enjoy being inconvienced carting teenagers around everythere. It may be partly her annoyance at getting up every day to take you to Mass.

It may also be that she is a bit envious. Don’t say that out loud, but that might be the case. You might be cracking through where she doesn’t want anything to reach. But watch it, don’t assume this to be the case.

Don’t argue. When voices are raised and tempers are hot, communication dies. Go to your room and sulk if you need to, but don’t get into an argument.

Try a polite “why not?” She may say something that you need to hear. Don’t underestimate how much you can learn from her. You know how to double check your information to see if it’s right, so listen to what she says.

And really listen. Don’t dismiss it before she says anything.

Tell her what you’ve learned, and show her (at least tell her about) your sources. Ask her (POLITELY!!!) to explain what she thinks, and why.

Don’t try to argue, or debate even. Be polite. And love. Even ending the discussion with an “agreement to disagree” may be okay.

If you’re careful, you can tell her (POLITELY!!!) that you’re open to changing your views if you see evidence of your views being false.

Study is good, study is wonderful, but the most important thing is love. If you can love, really love, you have everything.

Tell her that the Bride of Christ - the Church - is what (don’t say who, it’ll freak anybody out) you love. Tell her why.

And tell her you love her, too.

Get out of bed and keep going to mass.


#12

Come back and tell us how things are going.

Oh! I just thought of something! You might be a normal teenager who finds it difficult to say “I love you” to parents! Do you want my list of ways to make it easier (for entertainment value, if for nothing else)?


#13

[quote=cardenio]Come back and tell us how things are going.

Oh! I just thought of something! You might be a normal teenager who finds it difficult to say “I love you” to parents! Do you want my list of ways to make it easier (for entertainment value, if for nothing else)?
[/quote]

I have done nothing as of yet to help the situation.
I have done nothing to make it worse either.
I have done nothing.

I will do something when she brings it up again.

And, yes Mary, please entertain me.


#14

The default “I love you” rule is usually the same as the “I’m sorry” rule: Look the person in the eye and say it, then experience the loving tenderness of their reaction.

Okay, bad idea. Apologies, fine. “I love you” – not always the best way to go, especially if you don’t say this kind of thing very often, which is assumed: otherwise you wouldn’t be reading this.

My rules apply strictly to saying “I love you” to someone with authority (parents, priests, etc.) or to a peer (friends, cousins, etc.). A boyfriend/girlfriend or husband/wife “I love you” goes by completely different rules, which I haven’t written yet.

First, you have to love your mom. If you don’t love her, start. Stop whining about how horrible she is and start thinking of how wonderful she is. There are plenty of reasons to love your mom, and if you can’t find any, start paying attention.

Okay. We’re going with the assumption that “I love you” is a very difficult thing to say (otherwise you wouldn’t be reading this). Now, if you (a beginner, of sorts) look her in the eye and say “I love you” and sit there, staring her in the eye, three things will happen:

  1. You will become paranoid awaiting her reaction.
  2. She will be surprised.
  3. She will have no idea how to react.
    The situation goes downhill from there, as the conversation drops from coherent to uncomfortably sappy, and (depending on the personalities of the two parties), one or both of you may end up crying over the utter sappiness of the situation (though, if you’re lucky, you may be able to make some maple syrup out of it – but it takes a whole load of maple sap to make a little bit of maple syrup, so the chances are very slim that you’ll have enough to cover a pancake). And this method, if you dive into it like this, usually doesn’t have a great effect, as the next day you will probably be yelling at each other again. This is the nature of teenagers and their mothers. But look: you don’t need to freak her out. Your goal is to make her believe that you really do love her (and don’t do this dishonestly!).

Here are my three rules for making it easy:

  1. Leave right away so neither of you has to worry about an immediate reaction. Say it right before getting out of the car for mass or something. It has to be a situation where it would be weird for you to stay any longer, so it doesn’t look like you’re running away.
  2. No eye contact while you’re actually saying it. (Eye contact is permissible during the conversation, but most people don’t hold constant eye contact during a conversation, so use a time when you would look away to say it.) If you’re getting out of the car, you can kind of turn your head in her direction without actually making eye contact.
  3. Say it with a bunch of other stuff.
    Examples:
    Here’s one I used with my friend the other day: “[advice]…because I love you and I don’t want him to get you in that kind of situation.”
    More examples:
    – “I love you, but I don’t get what you mean.”
    – “I love you, but…” (pause, frustrated that you can’t come up with anything to say) “I don’t know” (shut the car door and go to mass)
    – “You and Dad had me baptized and raised me Catholic – what did you think would happen?” (sigh) “I love you, for that, and Dad And God.” (sigh) “And Catholicism.”

Note: If you rehearse beforehand, it will result in disaster. Tell her you love her, though - for one thing, it should be true, for another, it will make her happy, and for a third… parents (in general) melt when their teenager says “I love you.”

Three rules:

  1. Leave immediately.
  2. No eye contact.
  3. Don’t say it alone.

End of rules.

EDIT:
Oh, one more thing - GO TO MASS. Go back to sleep when you come home if you need to.

And - you don’t know if God wants you to be a priest or a pianist (according to your profile)… why not both?


#15

You don’t necessarily need to spoon feed your friends to help them.
If you tell them to fix it themselves, they do it themselves, and they learn from it.
They won’t learn if you keep doing the stuff for them.

They have a brain. They can learn to use it without you.

And my old email address is for MSN. If you click on “send Nekic a message via email”, it will send to my gmail address.

And i haven’t been to mass since Jack finished school last term, which was before christmas.

i am naughty…


#16

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