Muslim Woman Deemed Too Submissive to be French

uk.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUKL1173478020080711?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews

Thoughts?

Non-issue withing the radical Muslim community since she is following the rules set (although I am surprised she has not been murdered yet by her family for not being a virgin).

If this were a man, there would probably be rioting in the street.

I wonder what those, in this forum, who mightily declare that it is the right of Palestinians to define who is a Palestinian and what constitutes Palestine, think of the French who, it appears, claim the very same right, but with a different outcome.

The woman who was refused French citizenship is not the same person as the woman who wasn’t a virgin. The article makes passing reference to a second case.

French women are special :smiley:

If this ruling were applied consistently across the board, that would be one thing, but what makes this submissive, burqa-wearing Muslim woman in France any different than the thousands of other women in their country fitting the same description? I guess I am confused by the seemingly arbitrary decision that she doesn’t subscribe to the French cultural belief in equality of the sexes. Can’t that be said of every devout Muslim in France? It seems the ruling should be applied to all submissive, burqa-wearing women in France seeking citizenship (and the men who enforce the submission), or to none at all.

I think France has reserved to itself the right to be arbitrary in many more things than this.

Oui, vraiment!

Les (comment se dis <>?) de ma femme etait d’Alsace. Leurs noms etaint Allemand, et on parlent Allemand, mais les Alsaciennes sonts un petit peu Francais. N’est-ce pas?
Mais, si elle est Allemand ou Francais, elle est especial.

(Wow! It has been far too long since I have practiced speaking French!)

Yeah, yeah. I’ve experienced French bureaucracy firsthand. I had to go through the process of getting a student visa from the French embassy, in August no less. Still, I think my point is valid. It seems strange to rule against the woman in this one case and not every case. I’m not saying that all submissive women in burqas should be sent back to their homelands Le Pen-style, "avec dignité, or that all submissive women in burqas be granted citizenship. It’s just that this ruling has me scratching my head as to its future implications. Is this going to be a new policy, or an aberration? Will it be expanded to include the men who enforce the submission? I just think it’s an interesting case and I am enjoying pondering the questions it raises about future citizenship cases in France.

I have long been fascinated by the arbitrariness of obtaining French citizenship. I live in Missouri, which is part of the old Louisiana Territory. Under French law, because I was born in the old Louisiana Territory, I could become a citizen if I:

  1. Enter the country lawfully. Easy enough.
  2. Learn to speak French passably (somebody’s subjective judgment, and even then, it would take awhile, but it’s not impossible)
  3. Live there a year, keeping my nose clean.
  4. Become “inculturated” in the community. That’s where the Muslim woman got nailed. For me, I think it would only be a matter of learning to drink the “vin ordinaire” with every meal, perhaps at least pretend to smoke Gitanes, join a parish and be a reasonably sociable fellow, not hang out with Americans and certainly not with Brits. Probably I would need to learn to sing the Marseilleais. I do already know how to say “Vive la France!”, and I know the French flag when I see it.

It’s easier for me, from what I have heard, than it is for the spouse of a French citizen. It is also easier for me than it would be for my wife who was born in Indiana, but whose ancestors were Alsatians.

And I have no French ancestors, and no French relatives whatever.

Now, that’s arbitrary!







Leur noms etait allemandes? Ca doit etre different cela! Les Alsaciennes, comme je comprends, tous parlent le Francais and la langue allemande est leur deuxieme language. Je comprends aussi qu’il ya une language alsacienne…comme une sorte de dialect. C’est vraiment beau en Alsace! :slight_smile:

http://www.traveljournals.net/pictures/l/6/66535-chateau-alsace-france.jpg

It’s “les grands-parents”. Doesn’t get any easier than that, does it?!

(Oh man! This is going to be tough! I’ll never be able to do it! But here goes.)

Quand ils departait La France, Allamande etait leur langue seulement. Je crois qur c’est est un dialect qu’on appellait <>, le meme lange de Baden, pas “Hochdeutsch”, la langue de toutes des Allemands aujourd’hui. Dans le dix-neufieme siecle, beaucoup des Allemandes du Rhine parlait <>. C’est possible qu’ils parlait Francais aussi, mais leurs vieux lettres sonts ecrit en Allemand. Leurs noms etait Allemand; <>, <>, <>, <>.

(Broke a sweat doing that. It would take a power of relearning to do it at all well.)

Ug. Arrete avec le francais!

I’ve read speculation that this was a response to the allegations that traditional Muslim norms have been slowly creeping their way into French law. Sort of a “mon oeil!” to the nay-sayers

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

No, it sure doesn’t! You know, with all the Spanish speakers in the U.S. now, I have often regretted that I took French in college. At one time I was pretty good at it, enough to survive on St. Barts, certainly. But as I studied French, it seemed it got easier and easier, and part of the reason, I’m sure, is that there is so much French in English. But in my heart, I’m really not a bit sorry I took French instead of Spanish, though the latter would have been handier now. I have always liked the sound of French, much more so than Spanish. However, I will confess that when it comes to the pure joy of listening to it, no language on this earth beats Italian.

Maybe so, but I think they have always been kind of arbitrary about citizenship, as well as other things. They certainly would do well to be protective of their culture as well as their law, lest both be overwhelmed.







Thank you for sharing your family’s history…it is so interesting! I am very hard-pressed though to combine french with dutch or german. Although I have heard a very soft sounding german from a long-ago friend that I found so titillating to the ear. Not the guttural harshness of german or dutch.

No more breaking sweat, OK? But ya get an A+!:thumbsup:

That’s interesting. Once I was seated in a courtroom before the hearings, and behind me I heard two women conversing in a language I simply could not figure out. It sounded a bit like French, but I couldn’t understand any of it. Nor was it as nasal as French. Never, ever, ever would I have suspected it of being German. Finally, my curiousity got the best of me and I turned around and asked them what language they were speaking. “German”, they said. I replied that it didn’t sound at all like German to me. They informed me that they were from Cologne and that’s what German sounds like there. In further explaining, they did not seem too impressed with the harder sounds of the German spoken by most Germans. Their German was very musical to the ear. Very pretty.

I forgot to mention that it sounds better in French though. :thumbsup:

You know, with all the Spanish speakers in the U.S. now, I have often regretted that I took French in college. At one time I was pretty good at it, enough to survive on St. Barts, certainly. But as I studied French, it seemed it got easier and easier, and part of the reason, I’m sure, is that there is so much French in English. But in my heart, I’m really not a bit sorry I took French instead of Spanish, though the latter would have been handier now. I have always liked the sound of French, much more so than Spanish. However, I will confess that when it comes to the pure joy of listening to it, no language on this earth beats Italian.

Italian is a joy to listen to. I’ve recently thought about trying out the Rosetta Stone Italian program so I can follow along a little bit more with broadcasts from the Vatican.

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