Muslims and the BVM


#1

What is the Muslim veiw of the Blessed Virgin Mary I heard once they also believe she was Immaculate is this true?


#2

[quote=starrs0]What is the Muslim veiw of the Blessed Virgin Mary I heard once they also believe she was Immaculate is this true?
[/quote]

I don’t think there’s anything about Mary being Immaculate in the Koran, but Muslims do believe that she was a virgin mother. She is accorded special recognition as the mother of an exceptional prophet (Jesus).


#3

Sad that Muslims have more respect for Mary than most protestants.


#4

[quote=maendem]I don’t think there’s anything about Mary being Immaculate in the Koran, but Muslims do believe that she was a virgin mother. She is accorded special recognition as the mother of an exceptional prophet (Jesus).
[/quote]

I have heard that they believe the BVM and Jesus to be the only people in history to be sinless. They also believe her to be a perpetual virgin. Jesus was born of a virgin according to them.


#5

[quote=Michael_Thoma]Sad that Muslims have more respect for Mary than most protestants.
[/quote]

They don’t accept Christ though as the Son of God.


#6

I was on a field training exercise with a Moslem (a Warrant Officer from Yemen) and he told me that Jesus is a prophet of God. Ever time they name a prophet they have to say “peace be upon him”. Anyway they don’t believe he died but that God took him up and made some body look like him for the passion. They also kind of have the same judgment day story we do.

Islam in their eyes is a correction of Christianity as Christianity is a correction of Judaism.

Islam is false and evil but that’s what they believe.

Anthony


#7

It’s funny because Christianity doesn’t purport to “correct” Judaism, but rather to continue it to the next logical step post-Messiah. I’m always wary about the idea of religions “correcting” others. Mormonism comes to mind.


#8

I wouldn’t go so far to say Islam is evil. Some people are evil, the same is true of Catholic people. The religion attempts to do good and follow God, which most religions try to do.

I may disagree with Islam, but there are many good people and common belief and goals that we Catholics share. I don’t think its appropriate to bash the whole religion.


#9

[quote=maendem]I don’t think there’s anything about Mary being Immaculate in the Koran, but Muslims do believe that she was a virgin mother. She is accorded special recognition as the mother of an exceptional prophet (Jesus).
[/quote]

Since when does God send a prophet to be born of a virgin? If they believe this they should proclaim him the Son of God. Do they say God is the father of Jesus as well?

-D


#10

[quote=jimmy]I have heard that they believe the BVM and Jesus to be the only people in history to be sinless. They also believe her to be a perpetual virgin. Jesus was born of a virgin according to them.
[/quote]

Your right the beleive Mary is ever virgin and without sin as far as Immaculate goes I don’t know how that word translates to Arabic but the basic idea that she is sinless is there.
Remeber Mudhammed knew Nestorian Christians I beleive his uncles was one so around this time the idea the Mary was sinlees was established and of course the idea that she was ever virgin was always there and until well after the reformation this dogma was never seriously challenged. Heck eveen the Muslims didn’t challenge this one.
Some sects of Isalm actually pray to the VIrgin Mary yeah I know go figure. This is not the normal practice however and some Muslims would be quickly denounce this idea but the fact is some Muslims do it as a regular part of their prayer practice.


#11

[quote=Darrel]Since when does God send a prophet to be born of a virgin? If they believe this they should proclaim him the Son of God. Do they say God is the father of Jesus as well?

-D
[/quote]

Excellent point and I am glad I don’t have to answer it because I am a catholic. I think the obvious conclusion is that their theology lacks the obvious conclusion on who Jesus really should be the Son of God. Muslims do not beleive that Jesus is the Son of God they believe he is the servant of God. The reasons for the virgin birth would be an answer I would like to hear from the Muslim perspective.


#12

[quote=Michael_Thoma]I wouldn’t go so far to say Islam is evil. Some people are evil, the same is true of Catholic people. The religion attempts to do good and follow God, which most religions try to do.

I may disagree with Islam, but there are many good people and common belief and goals that we Catholics share. I don’t think its appropriate to bash the whole religion.
[/quote]

The Mohammedan religion is a cursed distortion and perversion of truth. The religion denies the divinity of Our Lord, and his Sacrifice for all men. It is a blasphemy to God.

I can only hope and pray that the practitioners will be saved, but never would I say Islam is ‘good’.

The Church teaches all religions have a morsel of the truth; sometimes I think that only morsel is “there is a deity”


#13

[quote=Ghosty]It’s funny because Christianity doesn’t purport to “correct” Judaism, but rather to continue it to the next logical step post-Messiah. I’m always wary about the idea of religions “correcting” others.
[/quote]

I have to disagree with you. The first Christians were definitely correcting the other Jews - they weren’t belligerent about it at first, but later you read scripture railing against the Sadducees and especially the Pharisees.

This was presumably after they had been thrown out of the synagogues, so their level of charity toward the opposing viewpoint understandably dropped a bit.


#14

[quote=Darrel]Since when does God send a prophet to be born of a virgin? If they believe this they should proclaim him the Son of God.
[/quote]

The second doesn’t automatically follow from the first. It can simply be a miracle. (I’m not sure that’s what they believe)

But your interpretation relies on your belief that God is a person (or actually three), and that humans are made in God’s image. This is not the Muslim viewpoint - they believe God is not some all-powerful humanlike form looking down from Mount Olympus, able to have intercourse with human women and have half-human, half-divine offspring.

That is why they find the Christian position difficult to accept. They also think Mary is considered part of the trinity.


#15

Hi guys,

I found this link talking about the story of mary

islamonline.net/english/introducingislam/Belief/Messengers/article02.shtml


#16

The second doesn’t automatically follow from the first. It can simply be a miracle. (I’m not sure that’s what they believe)

Yes, a rather substantial miracle that doesn’t happen to bring a prophet into the world.

But your interpretation relies on your belief that God is a person (or actually three), and that humans are made in God’s image. This is not the Muslim viewpoint - they believe God is not some all-powerful humanlike form looking down from Mount Olympus, able to have intercourse with human women and have half-human, half-divine offspring.

Mount Olympus?
Intercourse?

[font=Arial][size=2]If a person is born of a virgin, and never sins, and goes and performs miracles like raising the dead, and causing a violent sea to instantly become calm while he takes a nice strole across it, that may be an indicator saying he is more than a ‘prophet’. If that person is then resurrected from the dead after saying I and my father are one I might take him at his word.[/size] [/font]

That is why they find the Christian position difficult to accept. They also think Mary is considered part of the trinity.

I would have to ask what this is based on. The Blessed Virgin Mary never proclaimed this, in fact she said she was chosen by God.

Does anyone know if the Muslims are expecting a Messiah themselves?

-D


#17

[quote=nicole german]Hi guys,

I found this link talking about the story of mary

islamonline.net/english/introducingislam/Belief/Messengers/article02.shtml
[/quote]

Here is an exerpt from the link explaining the Muslim version of how Jesus performed his first miracle as a prophet according to Muslim teaching. Is it just me or does the thought of Baby Jesus speaking like a man to the crowd seem a little ummmm …off?

[indent][left]At length she brought the (babe) to her people, carrying him (in her arms). They said: “O Mary! Truly an amazing thing hast thou brought!

“O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!”
But she pointed to the babe. They said: “How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?”
He said: “I am indeed a servant of Allah: He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet;
“And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live;
“(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable;
“So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)”!] (Maryam 19:26-33)
[/left]

[/indent][left]And so the baby Jesus defended his mother from any accusations of adultery, and in a nutshell, explained who he was and why he was sent by God.

Here ends the story of Mary and miraculous birth of one of the greatest prophets of God, Jesus.
[/left]

-D


#18

[quote=Darrel][font=Arial][size=2]If a person is born of a virgin, and never sins, and goes and performs miracles like raising the dead, and causing a violent sea to instantly become calm while he takes a nice strole across it, that may be an indicator saying he is more than a ‘prophet’. If that person is then resurrected from the dead after saying I and my father are one I might take him at his word.[/size]As noted by someone above, Muslims do not accept that Jesus ever died.[/font]
[/quote]

So I guess they view him as a special prophet indeed.

I would have to ask what this is based on. The Blessed Virgin Mary never proclaimed this, in fact she said she was chosen by God.

First impression would be that Muhammed was truly ignorant about Christian doctrine. However, I suspect there may have been some heretical Christian groups that held to some version of Mary’s divinity. Arabia being the real boondocks of the Christian world, this particular heresy didn’t get the attention that was given to heresies around the Mediterranean, and it probably died out when most of its adherents became Muslim, and the remainder became better catechized.

Does anyone know if the Muslims are expecting a Messiah themselves?

I don’t think most Muslims feel any great need for a Messiah. God sent the Prophet to set them on the right course; what more do they need?

However, Shia Islam is a little more complex than Sunni, with reverence for their martyrs much like Christian saints. There are also Alawite, Sufi, and Druze sects. The Sufis tend to be pretty mystical, I doubt they see the need for an external Messiah. But I’m really not sure about Shia, Alawite, and Druze views on a possible Messiah.


#19

I have done some research into Islam and have some friends who are shite muslims.

Islam teaches that Mary gave birth to Jesus and that it was a virgin birth as the Catholic Church teaches. I have not found anything that says they believe that Mary was ever-virgin.

They believe that Jesus was a prophet like Moses and Muhammed. Muhammed is the greatest because he was the last.

They believe that each porphet gave a book that contained God’s teachings.

They further believe that the Bible, which would be the collected books of the Old Testament prophets (also the book of the Jews) and the New Testament (the book of Jesus), was corrupted by the Jews and Christians. That the Jews changed their books and the Christians change the book that Jesus gave.

They believe that Jesus did not die but was bodily assumed into Heaven. That God made Judas look like Jesus, so it was actually Judas that was crucified. If you look to the cultural identity of the Arabs, a sacrifice as Jesus gave is a sign of weakness.

They believe that Jesus will come again to pass judgement at the end of times. This is one of the odd things because they say that God judges and that Jesus is just a prophet.

Thats just a bit of what I have picked up. Hope it helps.


#20

Hey David,

God bless.

I am a Catholic theology student and we just had a talk on this in one of my classes - it’s run by 3 instructors, a Catholic, a Islamic scholar, and a Rabbi - anyway, one of the students said that there are 2 schools of thought (probably more, but 2 main) on this. One thought believes Jesus will come again at the end of time and he is Messiah. The other waits for Mahdi - a Shi’a leader.

There is no consensus nor it this written in the Qur’an.

Check out this site on Madhi


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