Muslims: let's reason


#1

We all know that Muslims do not believe in Jesus’ crucifixion. Rather, they believe someone else was crucified.

question : why ?


#2

My friend, I will answer you bluntly. This is the earliest evidence for “conspiracy theories”. George Bush is manipulating gasoline prices and someone else died on the cross not Our Lord.


#3

hehe…well, let’s hear Muslims’ point of view.

We got people saying Jesus was crucified because they saw him.

Muslims say it was someone else. I want to understand the logic and theology behind someone else dying.


#4

Well, they say they believe He is in heaven so they must believe He was taken to heaven alive. If they believed He did die on the cross and rose on the 3rd day they would have to accept that He is God and that Mohhamid is a false prophet. I think it is just another case of Mohhamid picking and choosing from Judaism and Christianity what he wanted to include in his religion.


#5

well i won’t argue about Jesus’ death. The Quran is very clear that Jesus did die indeed and was taken to heaven . My concern is regarding the “someone else died” : it’s logic and theology.

In other words, a Muslim tells you : it was not Jesus but someone else. You ask : and what is the logic behind this?


#6

In other words, some Muslims believe Jesus died ( how they dont know), others believe Jesus did not die. So Jesus’ death per se is not the problem cuz both views are accepted. The problem is about the crucifixion, no it was someone else…it is this logic am asking about.

In Quran you read Jesus died…and you read He was elevated. In Christianity as well, however the “how” is known to us. Muslims who believe he died don’t know how. But they say he was at least not crucified but someone else died.


#7

I still think it was that if he was crucified and rose from the dead 3 days later then they would have to accept that he was God. Just my opinion.


#8

z9.invisionfree.com/Love_For_Allah/index.php?showtopic=252

Matthew 12:40
An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Jesus likened his fate to that of Jonas who entered the belly of the whale alive, remained there alive though unconcious, and emerged thereform alive.

1:17 Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

2:1 Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish’s belly,
2:2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.
2:3 For thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed me about: all thy billows and thy waves passed over me.
2:4 Then I said, I am cast out of thy sight; yet I will look again toward thy holy temple.
2:5 The waters compassed me about, even to the soul: the depth closed me round about, the weeds were wrapped about my head.
2:6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.
2:7 When my soul fainted within me I remembered the LORD: and my prayer came in unto thee, into thine holy temple.
2:8 They that observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy.
2:9 But I will sacrifice unto thee with the voice of thanksgiving; I will pay that that I have vowed. Salvation is of the LORD.
2:10 And the LORD spake unto the fish, and it vomited out Jonah upon the dry land.


#9

sorry but why are you quoting the corrupt Bible? am asking about Islamic point of view.


#10

anyway what you quoted means Jesus was indeed crucified but did not die according to you…this is not what Quran says…or is there another Islamic interpretation that am not aware of?


#11

Oh i read the link you provided. You wrote:

So if Jesus was taken down from the cross alive though unconcious, he remained in the sepulchre alive and emerged thereform alive. Had he died upon the cross, there would have been no resemblance between his case and that of the Prophet Jonah.

Reply:

Jesus had only said that the likeness between him and Jonah would be in the period of time they were each to undergo an internment : Jonah in a fish, Jesus in the heart of the earth. You omitted this reference and claimed that Jesus must have been like Jonah in other ways as well, extending the likeness to include the living state of Jonah inside the fish. When Jesus’ statement is read as a whole, however, it is quite clear that the likeness is confined to the time factor : as Jonah was 3 days and 3 nights in the stomach of the fish, so Jesus would be a similar period in the heart of the earth. One cannot stretch this further, as you did , to say that as Jonah was ALIVE in the fish, so Jesus would be alive in the tomb. Jesus did not say this and such an interpretation does not arise from his saying but is read into it. Furthermore, in speaking of his coming crucifixion, Jesus on another occasion used a similar saying which proves the point quite adequately and which backfires against you:
**
As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of man be lifted up". ** John 3:14

Here the likeness is clearly in being “lifted up”. As Moses LIFTED UP the serpent, so would the Son of man be LIFTED UP, the one for the healing of the Jews, the other for the healing of the nations. In this case the brass serpent Moses made was dead and if your logic is applied to this verse we must presume that it means that Jesus must have been dead before he was lifted up, dead on the cross, and dead when taken down from it.

I hope you got other things to discuss since you are the only Muslim who volunteered to participate.


#12

Well St. John the Evangelist was a personal witness to our Lord’s crucifixion. He recorded it in the bible. It is a historical fact.


#13

well well, maybe the one crucified looked exactly like Jesus :smiley:

i was waiting for Muslims…only Sufi replied with an Ahmadiyya version.


#14

My question is, “What is satan’s greatest defeat?”.

The answer, “The Cross”.

So why would he admit to it.

Really think about the biggest anti-Christian messages in islam, no crucifixion, and that Jesus is not the son of God, and our God.

Do people really think that this was conceived in the mind of mohammed or satan himself, with this half truth religion whose fruit is death and damnation.

Pray for our muslim brothers and sisters for they have been deceived. And let no man judge or condemn, for only God knows a man’s heart.


#15

questo lo so :wink: ma aspettiamo le loro risposte. Took it for granted you are Italian :smiley:


#16

here is my GUESS, Im not sure but here is what I think, the primary reason is they cant comprehend a prophet of God being subject to such torture, only good/strength can happen to God’s messangers, in their mind everytime a prophet is attacked God HAS TO intervene and causes the attackers to either be killed or look like fools or else God will look weak and uncaring. Of course a secondary and most serious consequence is the denial of His Passion and Resurrection.

Though I dont agree with the result the line of thinking makes sense to me.


#17

mmmm but there is a problem still…many prophets were killed before Jesus and Allah did nothing.

Furthermore, EVEN IF Allah decided to interfere this time, why did another person have to die???


#18

Actually, your comment is the first time I heard of it. Why do you believe that Muslims reject Jesus’ crucifixion?


#19

because Muhammad said so in his book. Mainstream muslims reject it; Ahmadiyya and some others interpret the Quranic verse as such : Jesus was crucified but did not die…dunno why they came up with this interpretation…maybe cuz somebody else dying is ridiculous.


#20

The Bible explicitly teaches many prophets were killed…but does the Koran teach many prophets were killed before Jesus?

As for why another had to die, a simple possible answer is that man who did die was truly a criminal.


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