Muslims: Marvelous Protectors of Christianity! (?)

According to this “Achtiname of Muhammad”, it certainly seems so!

Somehow this fabulous document does not seem to reflect my (limited) understanding of how Muslims have lived out “gentle protection” of Christians in history.

My son is 18 and on a gap year working across the country away from home. He texted me to look up “Achtiname of Muhammad” because it supports a “discussion” we had been having.

Just before he left he questioned the difference in our Catholic faith and Islam because we “worship the same God.” I hesitated, and said, "Sort of, but there is a huge difference. For example, Christians don’t have it in their religious writings to force anyone to be Catholic. Muslims will force people to be Muslim, and have throughout history.

My son said he can get written proof its in their religion to protect Christians, and texted me the above recently.

I cannot read EXTENSIVELY on this topic right now. I just moved, and have to find work in a new state, and I am still unpacking.

I know some Catholic apologists write well on this. I know one apologist on EWTN radio makes a point on his program each time to tell some news about new current Muslim violence against Christians that the regular news media suppresses, because its not politically correct to show Islam as anything but peaceful and mild.

But I don’t remember who that apologist is! Does anyone know of whom I speak?

How can I tell my son intelligently and briefly about some of the substantial differences in how we see God and how they do? Because he is influenced by what he has been taught by his public school teachers. Can anyone give me a good basic argument, or, point the way to some good online reading on the topic. Brief, I mean. I have Hillaire Bellocs book on Crusades but I don’t see myself reading it for a couple months, at least!

Well, it sounds like you have two different conversations going on: 1) The religion of Islam and its tenets of faith and 2) the behaviors of certain Islamic people or groups. Just as in Catholicism, we have to separate these to identify the tenets of faith and also realize that throughout history, people have done sinful and sometimes deplorable acts that, while they were Catholic, their actions did not reflect to faith of the Church. I would read this article from Catholic.com to glean whatever wisdom you can first:

catholic.com/blog/tim-staples/do-muslims-worship-the-same-god-catholics-do

Secondly, let’s say for the sake of argument that all Islamic people are friendly toward Christians and do charitable works. Even if this were true (which it is not, BTW), this does not mean that their worship of God is correct or pleasing to God. They deny the Divinity of Jesus Christ, who is the way, the truth, and the light. Just this denial alone will impede their form of worship from pleasing God.

The discussion that you’re having with your son seems to be focused on a presumption that behavior = righteousness, which is a false premise. Just as Jesus had His Judas, there are also some very pleasant and charitable Atheists out there who openly reject God. According to our faith, the narrow gate isn’t likely to be viewed clearly by either.

Though he doesn’t have a regular show on EWTN radio, you may be thinking of Robert Spencer. He has researched this extensively, and has a good book on the topic – called “Not Peace, but a Sword.” I understand that you don’t have time to read a big book, but others here may be able to summarize Spencer’s key points for your specific question about “protecting Christians.”

All that document proves is that St. Catherine’s Monastery in Egypt would be protected. It sure has not protected the other Christians in Egypt or any where else in the Middle East, Africa, or the Far East. Christians have been persecuted by Muslims since Muhammad first appeared in the 7th cenury. Tell your son to take a little trip to Lybia, Syria, Iraq, the Sudan, etc and then come back and tell you all about it - if he ever gets back that is. I hate to say it but your son is a perfect idiot who knows absolutely nothing about the history of Islam. Looks like his liberal teachers have successfully indoctrinated him :shrug:.

Ask him about this: catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=22265&amp

And ask him why the Pope is so upset.

Linus2nd

I have always admired that document and would think it is for all Christians.

It may be worth considering that God is Love and Muhammad was also the embodiment of Love.

That man takes this Love and twists it to suit our base instincts can not be attributed to God or Muhummad.

God Bless and Regards Tony

Yes, the early muslims even had peace treaties with jews. The jews of Yathrib were overwhelmed with joy when the muslims emigrated from Mecca and many people offered Muhammad [peace be upon him] a place to stay. Muslims were also forbidden from killing monks or priests when waging jihad. You’re not going to know about this if you don’t dig deeper than surface level research, though [if you can call it research] because it’s not what people want to hear.

If you actually read the Q’uran, I think that in itself, this will prove to you that Islam is not a religion for the faint of heart. It doesn’t promote peace, love of neighbor or tolerance. I’ve heard people say that there seems to be a difference in the God of the OT and of the NT. Frankly, Islam is the OT on steroids.

Moreover, it doesn’t really matter WHAT muslims say they believe when their actions speak the exact opposite. Also, if you notice, even American Imams who are happy to go on TV and talk about how their’s is a gentle religion of love and how they feel persecuted by many Americans who judge them by the atrocities of the middle east, will back away from condemning the beheadings and torture of radical muslims in other countries. To my mind, this is hypocricy in its highest form.

Yes if one actually reads the Koran they will ALSO find Gods Love in Abundance.

Have you read some of the Bible stories, they are also quite violent!

The actions of a few do not stain the True Faith.

We must Love all and only share goodwill

God Bless and Regards Tony

I understand how heartbroken christians are with the slaughter of christians in Iraq-- I too am outraged and heartbroken. ISIS, which stands for the Idiotic Satanic Idolatrous Society, is going around killing everyone they don’t like (christians, shias, sunnis and more). I have seen the so-called caliph preaching in a masjid in a Youtube video and he knows a lot of verses of the Qur’an by heart, but unless he puts into practice the entirety of Qur’anic revelation, rather than ignoring parts he doesn’t like, then he understands nothing.

And of the people is he whose speech pleases you in worldly life, and he calls Allah to witness as to what is in his heart, yet he is the fiercest of opponents. And when he goes away, he strives throughout the land to cause corruption therein and destroy crops and animals. And Allah does not like corruption. And when it is said to him, 'Fear Allah ', pride in the sin takes hold of him. Sufficient for him is Hellfire, and how wretched is the resting place” [Qur’an 2:204-206]

The Idiotic Satanic Idolatrous Society [or ISIS] are enemies of Islam.

I tell you what, turn on the news just one night and listen to it and then tell me how gentle and loving muslims are. What does it matter what you can find in a book–and yes, there are a few peaceful passages in the Q’uran–if that is not how the majority of followers act?

One can call themselves what they wish, but that will not take away from the truth of the Book.

I am more likely to find Peaceful Loving Muslims than I am to find a Radical so called Muslim

But of Course that will not make the news.

It is easy to be veiled by what is not the Truth.

Show Love and Fellowship to all peoples, as some do not understand what they do, they are all Gods Creatures and it is to Him to Judge and us to Love and Pray.

God Bless and Regards Tony

You are probably correct that here in the states you are more likely to run into a muslim who isn’t out to commit jihad on you than say in the middle east or parts of Europe. But still, if you ask one to condemn the jihadists you’ll never see someone run away as fast. If they think murder and torture is wrong–if they really believe in peace and love–why would they be so afraid to say so? I personally think it’s more because they have learned how to survive in the USA and less because they don’t deep inside believe the same as muslims in the middle east.

I don’t think it will be wise to condemn the persons. We are not to judge other people’s souls. It will be unwise as well to ask others to judge their fellow men. That’s why they run away, lol.

The only thing we should condemn is the action.

You are probably right! I don’t judge their souls but if I heard a big bang, smelled smoke and saw a Christian, a Jew and a muslim coming at me, I’ll let you guess which one I’d be running away from as fast as I could!:thumbsup:

Lol :smiley:

Forexample Ottoman Empire:Ottoman Muslims conquered many place in Europe but they did not force Christians to be Muslim and they did not demolish churchs. Sultan Fatih Mehmet published a “ferman” to protect churchs. When Saladin captured Kudüs(Jerusalem) he did not slaghtured any Christian like Christians did. Ottamans protected and saved Jews when they were slaghtured in Europe. Allah says in Quran: İf some kill other without any reason it is as if he had killed all people. Ofcourse there should be some individual cases but Allah will punish them.

Hi Drac,

Many on here will tell you how much i am not a fan of islam, and im sorry for that, but my best friends family was killed by muslims in the lebanon war in the 80’s, they saw family members killed in front of them, and other things in recent history.
But i must admit, there have been many muslims on here, but for some reason, you and famidy are actual peaceful muslims. I commend you on that.
You follow what i call ‘moderate islam’ and i wish all muslims would be the same.
God bless you

This is incorrect.

The very core of the Ottoman army, for centuries, consisted in the Janissaries, who were non-Turks, largely Europeans, who had been taken from their families as children, trained in military arts and required to convert to Islam.

It may be noted as well that the European part of the Ottoman Empire was restive during the occupation, to say the very least. It was not possible to convert the whole populations because power shifted back and forth between the Turks and the locals.

Sorry to hear about your friend’s family.

Thank you for the compliment; I’m flattered. You can call me a moderate muslim if you want, but that is to put me into a box, in my opinion. Moderate people don’t make it too far in Islam, or in most other religions because when persecution comes, they fall away. It’s like in the parable of the seed sower.

aleteia.org/en/world/article/ten-things-you-need-to-know-about-isis-5810488902418432?page=2

Linus2nd

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