Hi there. I was out a walk tonight and passing a muslim gentleman sitting outside his indian takeaway having a smoke i felt uncomfortable. Let me explain a little. I live in a small town and our hometown consists of more takeout food shops than the good of it mainly indian takeouts and chineese takeaways. But the men who work in these indians well putting it right to the point glare at local women. Now i have to say not all of these men do this but most do. I have seen some local women like this attention and they just get used by these men for sex and that is all. Now before anyone thinks i am racist think again i have many friends of different cultures. My point of this post is are these men here making money helping the women sin and give in to temptation? Then after a while go back to pakistan? That is what is going on here from what i see.
My first question would be… in this town do the non-Muslim men do similar things? Many many men do in most towns, why would yours be different?
I know personally I stare at people who are dressed differently than I’m use to, not because I’m lusting because I find the attire interesting and sometimes very pleasing.
I believe you are probably reading to much into this, but that’s just my opinion I guess.
Maybe they are staring because they hate you not being in a full body burka!
Maybe ^^^. Or possibly they are staring b/c you have different features. I’ve lived in areas where people from other cultures (take a guess) really did do all the staring and it bothered me but I realized it might just be because I am blonde and that is nonexistent in their culture. It could be as simple as that.
From my VERY incomplete understanding of Indian/Pakistani culture here are my thoughts.
My people from that area (Muslim, Christian and Hindu) are very mindful of their business. This does cause some of the friction between them and locals at times because they tend to be more successful because of that very mindfulness.
Also, I find Occam’s Razor to be very useful in these situations. In short, the simplest explanation is usually the best.
My experience tells me that these fellows are going to look at you and mentally drop you into one of two categories: customer and non customer. If you fall into the non customer category then there is little reason to not take pleasure from looking at your female form.
Try going there and ordering food and see if there is not a difference.
Never ascribe to racism what can just as easily be put to motivated self-interest.
Thank you for all your replies. I think it may be possible that i could be reading a bit much into it right enough. I see everyone the same white black yellow blue what ever so racism is deffinatly not on the cards here. I beleive now after talking with my friend alot of these people from different cultures are under preasure visas etc… Do these people put them selves across in the wrong way because they need a british bride for a green card? I dont know but i know a pervy look i know an insulting look. And yes local men can be like that but not so much so. Anyway ill keep to myself and hopfully they will keep to theirs and that will be fine.
*I sort of thought this myself. I had muslim friends in PA (they moved from Syria) , and when we first met, they thought my light eyes with dark hair was such an unusual thing. I thought that was interesting. So, you’re right…could be as simple as that? *
I’m sure that this is going on with some of the men. But not all of them.
I know exactly what you’re talking about though…I live in a southwestern city in the States and the neighborhood I live in has over the past 3 years been overtaken by immigrants from another country to the South of us. (They aren’t Muslims though; in fact most of them are Catholic.) In my apartment complex I am now one of about 3 residents who speaks English only. Same problem in the local convenience stores and fast food restaurants. My number one problem isn’t the language barrier but that I’m a young single woman living alone in this neighborhood, and they know it. (I am actually engaged by my fiance doesn’t live near me.)
I am constantly being stared at in a…um, not-nice way. I don’t have this problem with women or with men who are not of Mexican descent. Only with the immigrant men…it’s obviously a cultural thing. This is different from normal, innocent people-watching. It’s lewd and lascivious and even if you make eye contact and challenge them they don’t look away. Many times at night if I have to go out one or a couple of them will approach me physically (usually drunk or drinking) and it’s pretty disturbing experience.
So…I don’t know if this helps you or not, except to say that I do know what you mean, Trish. I experience it too and it’s hard. I suppose the best thing to do would be to offer it up and pray for these men. And try not to go out alone at night.
Hm, I 've also noticed a refusal to back down when I stare back, which is obnoxious. What do I know, they could be being “not nice”. I wouldn’t want to tell the OP to ignore something that could be dangerous.
What about just glaring back? Oh I know, I know, that would be uncharitable. Except it probably wouldn’t hurt them, and might do them some good.
Well, I have tried that in my case and it doesn’t work. Nothing will shake them from their leering, or shame them. Staring/glaring back in some cases seems to encourage them, leading them to believe that I’m “interested” back…:rolleyes: I’ve even cursed at a few when I’d finally had enough (these are the ones that physically approached me). LOL that had better results but really I can’t recommend it because you never know who you’re dealing with, or who might “snap” and try to attack you. Especially if you’re a woman out on your own.
Safest bet is just try to ignore it, keep you head held high and move on past them ASAP. Trish, I understand your frustration/uncomfortable-ness…it can be very disheartening.
Not having experienced the exact situation myself, I’d guess that at least some of it comes from the financial aspect. Also, some of it could just have to do with racial hostility they’ve experienced from others. We were out of town a couple months ago and stopped in a neighborhood that was mostly Indian/Pakistani. I didn’t see anything wrong with us walking around and looking at the shops, but after 20 minutes or so I saw that we were getting a lot of stares, quite a few of which were openly hostile. We stopped in a little restaurant so my wife could use the restroom and after talking to the owner for a while, he told me that he didn’t see too many people looking like us coming around that part of town. He didn’t think it was dangerous or a problem, just that the few times they did get non-Indians coming around it was either by mistake or people looking to cause problems. I heard pretty much the same thing from two other shop owners, but in each situation after I talked to them for a bit it was actually quite pleasant (even at the stores where we ended up not buying anything).
We have several ethnic stores that we frequent here in town, and in a lot of situations we’ve been viewed suspiciously or with hostility until we’ve gone in several times or shown ourselves to be regular customers. In a lot of the situations we’ve ended up benefiting quite a bit from shopping at these places. Being smaller businesses, they value their regular customers more than larger businesses do, and aside from the friendly treatment we also end up getting free samples & even free meals from time to time (although the same is true from a few of the non-ethnic small businesses we frequent). I also value the exposure it gives our kids to other cultures.
It’s Islam and the misogynistic culture it breeds. They see us (women) as a sex-objects and non-mohammedans who run around “naked” are whores for them anyway. :mad:
“It is not as wrong raping a Swedish girl as raping an Arab girl," says Hamid. "The Swedish girl gets a lot of help afterwards, and she had probably ****** before, anyway. But the Arab girl will get problems with her family. For her, being raped is a source of shame. It is important that she retains her virginity until she marries.” It was no coincidence that it was a Swedish girl that was gang raped in Rissne ? this becomes obvious from the discussion with Ali, Hamid, Abdallah and Richard. All four have disparaging views on Swedish girls, and think this attitude is common among young men with immigrant background. “It is far too easy to get a Swedish whore?? girl, I mean;” says Hamid, and laughs over his own choice of words. “Many immigrant boys have Swedish girlfriends when they are teenagers. But when they get married, they get a proper woman from their own culture who has never been with a boy. That?s what I am going to do. I don?t have too much respect for Swedish girls. I guess you can say they get ****** to pieces.”
Of course there is no concept of rape in Islam. There is only halal (allowed) and haram (forbidden) sex, which is in respect to the ownership of the woman. If the man owns the woman (as either husband or slave-master) he is allowed to have sex with her, regardless of her consent, if she is not in his possession, it is zina (fornication, adultery). Also, as Harbi’s (inhabitants of Dar-ul-harb, the house of war) there is no punishment of crimes towards us, our “blood and property” are not protected.
Sexual harassment of women in Egypt is on the increase and observing Islamic dress code is no deterrent, according to a survey published this week.
SEXUAL HARASSMENT IN EGYPT
Experienced by 98% of foreign women visitors
Experienced by 83% of Egyptian women
62% of Egyptian men admitted harassing women
53% of Egyptian men blame women for ‘bringing it on’
In the religious address on adultery to about 500 worshippers in Sydney last month, Sheik Hilali said: "If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it … whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat?
**“The uncovered meat is the problem.”
The sheik then said: “If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred.” **
He said women were “weapons” used by “Satan” to control men.
“It is said in the state of zina (adultery), the responsibility falls 90 per cent of the time on the woman. Why? Because she possesses the weapon of enticement (igraa).”
Q: **Recently I saw a question on the status of women taken as prisoners during Jihad. **
A: The LEGAL possession that a Muslim receives over a slave woman from the “Ameerul-Mu’mineen” (the Islamic Head of State) gives him legal credence to have coition with the slave woman in his possession, just as the marriage ceremony gives him legal credence to have coition with his wife. In other words, this LEGAL POSSESSION is, in effect, a SUBSTITUTE of the MARRIAGE CEREMONY.
after a formal slaughtering process, in which the words, “Bismillahi Allahu Akbar” are recited, goats, cows, etc.; become “Halaal” and lawful for consumption, whereas fish becomes “Halaal” merely through ‘possession’ which substitutes for the slaughtering.
In other words, just as legal possession of a fish that has been fished out of the water, makes it Halaal for human consumption without the initiation of a formal slaughtering process; similarly legal possession of a slave woman made her Halaal for the purpose of coition with her owner without the initiation of a formal marriage ceremony.
Similarly, if a slave woman was married previously in enemy territory to a non-Muslim, and is then captured alone, i.e. without her husband, it is not permissible for any Muslim to have relations with her until her previous marriage is nullified, and that is done by bringing her to an Islamic country and making her the legal possession of a Muslim.
Although the owner himself cannot get married to his slave woman, without giving her freedom, he can get her married to someone else. If he gets her married to someone else, then only her husband can now have intercourse with her and the owner’s right of having intercourse with her comes to an end. All these facts prove that the slave girl does not become an instrument of sex; on the contrary, her honour is upheld, in that only one man is allowed to have intercourse with her JUST AS only one man (the husband) is allowed to have intercourse with his lawfully wedded wife.
Islam ensured that the slave girl’s duties were not restricted merely to domestic chores but also gave her master permission to copulate with her. This concession created an atmosphere of love and harmony between the slave girl and her master. Islam thereby raised the status of the war captive-maidens close to that of wives. It was a psychological cure to her grief-stricken heart, being deprived of her family and thrown into the hands of a strange society.
(Please excuse me for a minute: http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/ekelig/e025.gif )
A C Clair that sounds a bit scary i would be carefull going it alone in your neighbourhood!! I mean Ive never been approched by these people if i was i think i would have to go to the police!! Yes these men do look at women with a different view as they have been brought up being taught that women are dogs so we do get a little scared when getting stern looks. Or in my case a littly pervish looks. Yes i am blond but these guys being here quite a while im sure they have seen blond red black whatever they know what they are doing.