Muslins and the BVM


#1

I’m probably the only one who didn’t know this but I just found out that Muslins hold Mary in high regard also, but there is even a book in the Quran named after her. There is no Joseph though,
she was immaculately conceived and conceived Jesus by God breathing into her, and she was living at the Temple and when she was ready to give birth she went into the dessert alone, and under a Palm tree she gave birth. She then went back into town and she stood mute, as she thought they would punish her, but baby Jesus performed his first miracle and spoke. Anyway they honor Mary and hold her in high esteem.

Do any Mulins here honor the BVM? Here is a video about Muslin women and Mary.

youtube.com/watch?v=RTMqDpXLvII&feature=related


#2

I know from my own study and time in Islam that Mary is often held as the example of what a Muslimah (i.e. a female Muslim) should be like. Mary submitted to God in giving birth to Jesus, and even when accused of sexual impropriety by villagers, simply remained trusting in God to vindicate her, and this was done as Jesus spoke to them from her arms to defend her from their accusations.

Even the traditional depiction of Mary in the headscarf and long clothes is seen as an example to all Muslimahs to wear hijab and be modest.


#3

I have read that Mohammed considered superior to his favorite daughter - Fatima, for whom the town in Portugal is named.


#4

Yea they hold her in high regards but don't speak of her much. They mostly just speak of what Moh told them to do in the Quaran.


#5

In my experience having Muslim friends (since the 70s), not one ever actually mentioned Mother Mary:shrug:

Except for one nephew of a Muslim friend of mine who asked "you Catholics worship Mary?".

He asked in all honesty, not in a demeaning way. Ofcourse I corrected him, but he didn't comment nor inquire further.

MJ


#6

*Muhammad, Qur’an.

Forgive my pedantry–Arabic is my university major. :slight_smile:


#7

Interesting.

Except for one nephew of a Muslim friend of mine who asked “you Catholics worship Mary?”.

He asked in all honesty, not in a demeaning way. Ofcourse I corrected him, but he didn’t comment nor inquire further.

An easy way to get across that Catholics don’t worship St. Mary is to draw a comparison to the view that Muslims take of Muhammad. The two individuals are quite human, and are merely regarded as exemplary models of virtue for whom nasheeds can be sung without idolatry being involved.


#8

Didn't S.D. Fulton Sheen write something about this?

Off topic-
Is S.D. the correct abbreviation for Servant of God?


#9

Alawite's[Syria] venerate her though I don't know exactly how.

Immaculate Conception is in the Quran though I believe its understood differently. Wonder where Mohammad came upon that teaching. :shrug:


#10

[quote="GaryTaylor, post:9, topic:284808"]
Alawite's[Syria] venerate her though I don't know exactly how.

Immaculate Conception is in the Quran though I believe its understood differently. Wonder where Mohammad came upon that teaching. :shrug:

[/quote]

Imo likely met Catholic traders who ventured further East who spoke about it to him. Muhammad being a businessman at that thus took some thoughts into his moments alone and jettisoned what didn't make sense to him and came up with his own version :dts:

MJ


#11

[quote="GaryTaylor, post:9, topic:284808"]
Alawite's[Syria] venerate her though I don't know exactly how.

[/quote]

As I understand it, the Alawites are for Muslims what the Jehovah's Witnesses are for Christians--i.e., a sect of gravely-erring heretics.

Immaculate Conception is in the Quran though I believe its understood differently. Wonder where Mohammad came upon that teaching. :shrug:

Muslims deny original sin, but there's something in the Qur'an or Hadith to the effect that for two humans--Jesus and St. Mary--God held back the hand of Satan from spreading to them the infection of sin.


#12

Not my point, Mary “Immaculate Conception” and the Quran are, in a word. the Historical Dating of the Immaculate Conception is my concern. :thumbsup:

There’s a bit in Islam on Mary through History also.

“Every child is touched by the devil as soon as he is born and this contact makes him cry. Excepted are Mary and her Son”. From this Hadith and from verses 35-37 of Sura III, Moslem commentators have deduced and affirmed the principle of Mary’s original purity. God, in fact, according to the Koranic text, granted the wish of Anna who consecrated to him Mary, about to be born, and the One to whom she would give birth (III, 37). God predestined Mary and purified her, raising her above all women (III, 45).

After this premise it is not surprising that the dogma of the Immaculate Conception, though only implicitly contained in verses III, 31, 37, is univocally recognized by the Islamic religion. The recognition arises without difficulty also from the repeated and always unanimous evaluation of the extraordinary person of Mary and of her pure life (III, 42; XXI 91; LXVI, 12) which set her, with her Son, above every other created being.

Mary’s childhood, as seen through the Koran narration and Islamic tradition, is entirely a miracle. Mary grows under direct divine protection, she is nourished daily by angels (III, 32) and has visions of God every day. Everything contributes to making her and her Son a signum for mankind (V, 79; XXI, 91; XXIII, 50). But if the detailed narration of Mary’s childhood confirms the exceptional value of her person, it is necessary to stress that the greatness of Mary is completely related to the extraordinary event constituted by the birth of her son Jesus…etc etc etc.

[EWTN]


#13

No doubt, there is plenty of “spin” on the Annunciation. These teachings would have had to come from Christians in the middle-east in this period, probably resigned to the memory of Mohammad, who spoke on this to others thus the “telephone game” thus the spin. Mary became a point of contention with Mohammad and the Jews also.


#14

Of course Muslims hold Mary in high regard, and the name Maryam, Mary in Arabic, is very famous among Muslim women. And we believe that she is the best woman of all nations. Quran 3:42. Behold! The angels said: "O Mary! Allah hath chosen thee and purified thee;―chosen thee above the women of all nations.

Unfortunately, Muslims are not doing enough to spread the teachings of Islam, but all you need to do is to read the Quran to understand Islam.

Quran Chapter 19. Maryam:
Relate in the Book (the story of) Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place in the East. (16) She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them: then We sent to her Our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects. (17) She said: “I seek refuge from thee to (Allah) Most Gracious: (come not near) if thou dost fear Allah.” (18) He said: “Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.” (19) She said: “How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?” (20) He said: "So (it will be): thy Lord saith That is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us': it is a matter (so) decreed." (21) So she conceived him, and she retired with him to a remote place. (22) And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm-tree: she cried (in her anguish): "Ah! would that I had died before this! Would that I had been a thing forgotten and out of sight!" (23) But (a voice) cried to her from beneath the (palm-tree): "Grieve not! for thy Lord hath provided a rivulet beneath thee; (24) "And shake towards thyself the trunk of the palm-tree: it will let fall fresh ripe dates upon thee. (25) "So eat and drink and cool (thine) eye. And if thou dost see any man sayI have vowed a fast to (Allah) Most Gracious, and this day will I enter into no talk with any human being.’ " (26) At length she brought the (babe) to her people, carrying him (in her arms). they said: "O Mary! truly an amazing thing hast thou brought! (27) “O sister of Aaron! thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!” (28) But she pointed to the babe. They said: “How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?” (29) He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah: He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet; (30) "And He hath made me Blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live; (31) "(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable; (32) “So Peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)”! (33) Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute. (34) It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter, He only says to it “Be”, and it is. (35)


#15

Indeed but for the original truth we turn to the Bible rather than Mohammed and his distorted renderings of those truths.


#16

[quote="GaryTaylor, post:12, topic:284808"]
Not my point,

[/quote]

You had written, "Alawite's[Syria] venerate her though I don't know exactly how." I was pointing out how using that sect as evidence of Muslims venerating St. Mary was problematic because Allawites are not really Muslims.

Mary "Immaculate Conception" and the Quran are, in a word.

What do you mean?

the Historical Dating of the Immaculate Conception is my concern. :thumbsup:

Are you seeking to find out whether the immaculate conception dates back to at least the seventh century AD, as data to be brought to the table in discussions with Eastern Orthodox?

There's a bit in Islam on Mary through History also.

"Every child is touched by the devil as soon as he is born and this contact makes him cry. Excepted are Mary and her Son".

Ahh, thanks, that's the material I had in mind.

From this Hadith and from verses 35-37 of Sura III, Moslem commentators have deduced and affirmed the principle of Mary's original purity. God, in fact, according to the Koranic text, granted the wish of Anna who consecrated to him Mary, about to be born, and the One to whom she would give birth (III, 37). God predestined Mary and purified her, raising her above all women (III, 45).

After this premise it is not surprising that the dogma of the Immaculate Conception, though only implicitly contained in verses III, 31, 37, is univocally recognized by the Islamic religion. The recognition arises without difficulty also from the repeated and always unanimous evaluation of the extraordinary person of Mary and of her pure life (III, 42; XXI 91; LXVI, 12) which set her, with her Son, above every other created being.

Mary's childhood, as seen through the Koran narration and Islamic tradition, is entirely a miracle. Mary grows under direct divine protection, she is nourished daily by angels (III, 32) and has visions of God every day. Everything contributes to making her and her Son a signum for mankind (V, 79; XXI, 91; XXIII, 50). But if the detailed narration of Mary's childhood confirms the exceptional value of her person, it is necessary to stress that the greatness of Mary is completely related to the extraordinary event constituted by the birth of her son Jesus....etc etc etc.

[EWTN]

Thanks for citing this material too. One wonders why, in the Muslim framework, God decides to do such great things for Jesus and St. Mary rather than Muhammad and Amina, when Muslims believe that Jesus was sent only to the Jewish people but Muhammad to all of humanity? :confused:


#17

[quote="Amoon, post:14, topic:284808"]
Of course Muslims hold Mary in high regard, and the name Maryam, Mary in Arabic, is very famous among Muslim women. And we believe that she is the best woman of all nations. Quran 3:42. Behold! The angels said: "O Mary! Allah hath chosen thee and purified thee;―chosen thee above the women of all nations.

[/quote]

Why did Amina, the mother of Muhammad, not receive such special favours from God? What makes St. Mary so important?

Unfortunately, Muslims are not doing enough to spread the teachings of Islam,

Why do you say this?


#18

Ah, I see your point. I thought the Sunni’s believed all others are heretical, such as the Shiites etc? Same in reverse with the Shiites, no? :confused:

No, dating through history for my own interest, in a few areas, Christianity, Islam etc. There are patristics from the East/West which date earlier than this.

Your welcome.

So many issues in the middle east, restricted reading, religious/political law, literacy, view of women etc. Learned behavior by large which indicates a lack of compassion in its radical aspect, leads generation after generation astray. Good questions though. I was under the impression Islam believed Jesus was a muslim:confused:, yet was somehow sent to guide them by correcting their errors to Allahs will?


#19

Well, some do and others do not. I would reckon that, notwithstanding the differences between Sunnis and Shi’as, both groups would consider the Allawites to be off in the deep end, with no hope of rescue.

No, dating through history for my own interest, in a few areas, Christianity, Islam etc.

Ahh.

There are patristics from the East/West which date earlier than this.

For St. Mary living a sinless life, definitely yes. For her immaculate conception, I shall have to investigate (all that comes to mind is a quote from St. Augustine equating Christ with the Blessed Virgin in terms of freedom from sin).

So many issues in the middle east, restricted reading, religious/political law, literacy, view of women etc. Learned behavior by large which indicates a lack of compassion in its radical aspect, leads generation after generation astray.

Those are important factors to keep in mind. But I was speaking in terms of abstract Islamic theology, rather than concrete socio-political reality.

Good questions though. I was under the impression Islam believed Jesus was a muslim:confused:, yet was somehow sent to guide them by correcting their errors to Allahs will?

The story goes that all the prophets taught Islam in their own particular way (e.g., Jesus and Muhammad did not hand down exactly the same dietary laws), all of them being sent by God to lead their peoples back to follow him correctly.


#20

Can you elaborate?

Yes, this is how I understand.


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