Must prove Nun wrong...need help with a few things


#1

Well, today, Monday, January 23rd, I heard the single most liberal/modernist thing ever. The nun at my school said in theology class today, “Honestly, God doesn’t care what the Catholic Church says or does here on earth.” Yes, a nun (of the Benedictan Order) said such a comment, and meant it.

I’m in the process of telling her what’s up (in the form of a letter), and I need help with one argument I would like to make. It completely contradicts her rather heretical statement, thus proving her remarks wrong. I read somewhere in the Bible something along the lines of “What you hold true to on earth, so will I hold true to in heaven.” If someone could help me out with what to tell her, it would be greatly appreciated, but especially, I need help with that one statement (read above, if necessary for memory refreshment).

Thanks,
ChiRho


#2

History, Sacred Tradition, the Catechism, etc,. are all against her.

Ask her by whose authority she speaks? If it is her own, then she has just pur herself about Jesus Christ himself as she has made herself her own authority, thus she has broken the first commandment: Thou Shalt have no other Gods before me. The cult of self.

You don’t need to defend…the burden of proof is upon her. She needs to define her authority, her yardstick…and she has none whatsoever.

If God did not care about what the Catholic Church does on earth, then he would not have sent Jesus Christ to found it.

Let me guess…she’s at St. John’s Abby in Collegeville, MN, or associated with St. Catherine’s in MN…right?

As far as the quote in the Bible: it is a reference to the priesthood, ie the Catholic church: Simon Bar-Jonah I call you Petros, and upon this rock I shall build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Whatsoever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; whatsoever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

I’m sorry I don’t have my Biblical cheat sheet handy, but is that what you were looking for?

Don’t worry; she’s likely old and she’ll be dead soon along with the rest of her ilk, likely in a chastizement that we’re all overdue for; and if that doesn’t happen yet, then of old age. Just pray for her…she needs it a LOT!


#3

[quote=JCPhoenix]Whatsoever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; whatsoever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
[/quote]

That’s exactly what I was looking for. I’ll have to do some quick research on that quote to see if I can integrate it into my argument. And sorry, JCPhoenix, she’s like 40-something, not dying any time soon. I cannot let her spread her lies to the school.

I’m not sure if she has any affiliation with the Abby up in MN, but I’ll ask her casually one day. I live in north Tampa Bay, Fl, quite a ways away from there.


#4
  • It completely contradicts her rather heretical statement, thus proving her remarks wrong. I read somewhere in the Bible something along the lines of …*

I would not expect any conversions. The sad thing is I imagine she has at least one degree or training in theology and knows exactly that her statement was contrary to the Faith. A large portion of nuns in the Church today are not Catholic and many of them cannot even be considered Christian.

Its an unfortunate thing what has happened to these Religious Orders over the last 40 years, who were once the bedrock of the Church in the schools, hospitals ect. Vocations are essentially dead while new Orders are springing up that are much more faithful. It will be interesting to see the Church in the next 20 years. I believe it will get much better.


#5

[quote=ChiRho79]Well, today, Monday, January 23rd, I heard the single most liberal/modernist thing ever. The nun at my school said in theology class today, “Honestly, God doesn’t care what the Catholic Church says or does here on earth.” Yes, a nun (of the Benedictan Order) said such a comment, and meant it.

I’m in the process of telling her what’s up (in the form of a letter), and I need help with one argument I would like to make. It completely contradicts her rather heretical statement, thus proving her remarks wrong. I read somewhere in the Bible something along the lines of “What you hold true to on earth, so will I hold true to in heaven.” If someone could help me out with what to tell her, it would be greatly appreciated, but especially, I need help with that one statement (read above, if necessary for memory refreshment).

Thanks,
ChiRho
[/quote]

Calm down. Before putting anything in writing, ask her man-to-man what she meant by that statement.

If she can’t come up with a clear answer, ask her to clarify for the class that the Catholic Church is the Church founded by Jesus Christ, and it would be rash to think that her teachings are inconsequential, especially in light of Matthew 16:18-19 and Matthew 18:18. Go to the Catechism of the Catholic Churchand absorb the relevant passages; share them with her in a friendly way.

Most of all, do NOTHING until you have recovered your equanimity. You’re setting yourself up for trouble if you charge in there like a fire-breathing dragon (although it IS tempting!).


#6

Independent Lens on PBS had a recent documentary of the Benedictines.

Tthere were issues with a few nuns who decided they would refer to God as mother. And they wonder why they are struggling with vocations? The new vocations seemed to be women in their 40’s and 50’s.

The older nuns seemed to know the answer. No habits, heterdoxy etc…


#7

Well, today, Monday, January 23rd, I heard the single most liberal/modernist thing ever. The nun at my school said in theology class today, “Honestly, God doesn’t care what the Catholic Church says or does here on earth.” Yes, a nun (of the Benedictan Order) said such a comment, and meant it.

Perhaps you should ask her if God cares about what she says or does. If she says yes, then ask her why God wouldn’t care what the Church he founded says or does.

Remind her that Jesus said in Matt.16:18: “And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.” He gave no such promise to wayward nuns.

And he promised the Apostles in Jn. 16:13: “When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.” Sounds pretty relevant to today to me! :wink:


#8

Here are some quotes from the Catechism that might help:

768
So that she can fulfill her mission, the Holy Spirit "bestows upon [the Church] varied hierarchic and charismatic gifts, and in this way directs her."177 "Henceforward the Church, endowed with the gifts of her founder and faithfully observing his precepts of charity, humility and self-denial, receives the mission of proclaiming and establishing among all peoples the Kingdom of Christ and of God, and she is on earth the seed and the beginning of that kingdom."178
(emphasis mine)

778
The Church is both the means and the goal of God’s plan: prefigured in creation, prepared for in the Old Covenant, founded by the words and actions of Jesus Christ, fulfilled by his redeeming cross and his Resurrection, the Church has been manifested as the mystery of salvation by the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. She will be perfected in the glory of heaven as the assembly of all the redeemed of the earth (cf. Rev 14:4).

779
The Church is both visible and spiritual, a hierarchical society and the Mystical Body of Christ. She is one, yet formed of two components, human and divine. That is her mystery, which only faith can accept.

780
The Church in this world is the sacrament of salvation, the sign and the instrument of the communion of God and men.


#9

Read Mystici Corporis. Pius XII does a very good job explaining what you are looking for. It is fairly short and is an easy read. It can be found at the EWTN document library.


#10

So, God does not care if the church falls into error?


#11

Forget arguing anything from Scripture or theology with this faux religious. It’s waste of your time and effort, with that sort. :rolleyes:

Simply ask her: how is it that she knows so much more than the rest of us about exactly what God cares or does not care about - and exactly what kind of direct link is it which she has into the mind of the Deity?


#12

Whatever you write, keep it short. For a NUN to make such a comment it shows that she has no idea what God does or doesn not care about–nor is she rational. Such comments are born from some internal place that no cogent argument can go.


#13

Thanks for the help, guys, it’s greatly appreciated. My two friends and I are in the process of editing the letter. I have finished my edit (I created the first draft and the second edit) and they will handle extra concerns and issues, and help me with theological errors and the like (although, my one friend said it was fine, but the other one is gonna read through it).

Afterwards, I’m going to send the nun the letter in an email or print it out. That brings up another question: how should I give it to her? Should I hand it in to her personally or via the school’s email servers?

And my dad made a good point last night. If she thinks that God doesn’t care about the Church, in her eyes, it will seem like he doesn’t. She is very liberal and very much so against a lot of the Church’s teachings (doesn’t like the Pope, his teachings, and anything conservative for that matter).

I know some of you don’t think I should do this, but I feel I must. I cannot let this go on, I just don’t think it’s right. At the end of the letter, I asked if we could talk to each other in person after school (when we had more time) so that we could clear things up. I don’t know how far I’m willing to go with this, but I’ll worry about that as the situation rolls along.

Thank you, all, for your continuous help regarding this situation.


#14

Ask her “Do you know what level of concern God has for you>”

when she says " “what?”

answer her "nun…


#15

Scripture says to take your trouble privately to the person first (in this case, I would take witnesses). I would take your two friends to that after-class meeting, or better yet, an appointment during her office hour, since you may need witnesses.

Be sure you have TOTALLY calmed down. TOTALLY. Listen more than you speak. Do not argue with her. You have the facts on your side. You can present them with equanimity, but not in an adversarial way.

If she starts tying a theological noose around her neck, then deliver the letter you have prepared, adding material from your meeting as appropriate.

Send a copy of the letter to the Chairman of the department. Is this is a high school theology class? Is she the head of the religion section? If so, then the copy should go to the Headmaster.


#16

[quote=buffalo]Independent Lens on PBS had a recent documentary of the Benedictines.

Tthere were issues with a few nuns who decided they would refer to God as mother. And they wonder why they are struggling with vocations? The new vocations seemed to be women in their 40’s and 50’s.

The older nuns seemed to know the answer. No habits, heterdoxy etc…
[/quote]

each Benedictine monastery is independent, while there is a world-wide organization, and ties to the mother house, there is not a world-wide discipline and manner of operation. there are definitly Benedicine houses that are ultra-liberal and downright heretical in what they allow their members to teach, do and say, the Erie Pa home of Joan Chittister is an example.

However, because of the way they are organized and operate, you cannot apply blanket statements to all Benedictine houses. There are just as many faithful, orthodox communities. Since they are not out to seize the limelight and promote agendas in MSM, you just don’t hear about them.

would like to welcome anyone in SoTex to meet the Benedictine Sisters of the Monastery of the Good Shepherd in Rio Grande City. These ladies will change your life and renew your faith in nuns as defenders and teachers of the faith. Their charism is evangelization and pro-life witness, and they are dy-no-mite.


#17

[quote=Della]Perhaps you should ask her if God cares about what she says or does. If she says yes, then ask her why God wouldn’t care what the Church he founded says or does.

Remind her that Jesus said in Matt.16:18: “And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.” He gave no such promise to wayward nuns.

And he promised the Apostles in Jn. 16:13: “When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.” Sounds pretty relevant to today to me! :wink:
[/quote]

In addition to the above comments, you may want to have her read Acts 26 as well. It recounts the story of the first time that Jesus appeared to Paul. Note that Christ’s first words to Paul were “Why do you persecute ME?” (verse 14). Now, Jesus had already died, risen and gone to heaven. Nobody was persecuting HIM. Paul was persecuting Christ’s church. Yet Jesus does not say “Why are you persecuting My church?”; He says “Why are you persecuting ME.” And Christ says this more than once (“I am Jesus whom thou persecute”) so that there can be no doubt.

If you persecute the church, you persecute Jesus. Jesus and His church are one! If you persecute the church, you persecute Jesus. If you reject the teachings of the church, you reject the teachings of Jesus.


#18

[quote=mercygate]Send a copy of the letter to the Chairman of the department. Is this is a high school theology class? Is she the head of the religion section? If so, then the copy should go to the Headmaster.
[/quote]

Is it a Parochial School? Send a copy to the Pastor. And one to the Diocesan Chancery, too. And make sure that the letter indicates who is getting copies.

Justin


#19

[quote=asquared]each Benedictine monastery is independent, while there is a world-wide organization, and ties to the mother house, there is not a world-wide discipline and manner of operation. there are definitly Benedicine houses that are ultra-liberal and downright heretical in what they allow their members to teach, do and say, the Erie Pa home of Joan Chittister is an example.

However, because of the way they are organized and operate, you cannot apply blanket statements to all Benedictine houses. There are just as many faithful, orthodox communities. Since they are not out to seize the limelight and promote agendas in MSM, you just don’t hear about them.

would like to welcome anyone in SoTex to meet the Benedictine Sisters of the Monastery of the Good Shepherd in Rio Grande City. These ladies will change your life and renew your faith in nuns as defenders and teachers of the faith. Their charism is evangelization and pro-life witness, and they are dy-no-mite.
[/quote]

I did not wish to present a broadbrush of all Benedictines. I do not think the SoTex house was included in this documentary.


#20

For goodness sakes. How about the Creed? Has she bothered to read it? If God doesn’t care what the Catholic Church thinks than why is she Catholic in the first place? Mighty protestant of you sister! Don’t these people have to take the Oath of Fidelity?
catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=5168

Is she a teacher in a Catholic university? If so, she probablyshould have taken it.

NOTE: Canon 833, Nos. 5-8 obliges the following to make the profession of faith: vicars general, episcopal vicars and judicial vicars; “at the beginning of their term of office, pastors, the rector of a seminary and the professors of theology and philosophy in seminaries; those to be promoted to the diaconate”; “the rectors of an ecclesiastical or Catholic university at the beginning of the rector’s term of office”; and, “at the beginning of their term of office, teachers in any universities whatsoever who teach disciplines which deal with faith or morals”; and “superiors in clerical religious institutes and societies of apostolic life in accord with the norm of the constitutions.”


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