My Church has LGBTQ Vespers?


#101

The expression is odd perhaps, but the idea is not. We have mass for the sick, not sick Mass.


#102

Or a priest running an outreach ministry? Why assume one explanation rather than the other? Perhaps the OP will report back with facts in due course.


#103

I’m not sure how simply adding the word LGBTQ to a prayer service furthers an agenda.

Catholic churches have indeed in the past had services or Masses for specific groups. For example, Mass in Polish, or prayer service for first responders, or Red Mass for lawyers, or prayer service for persons struggling with addictions or homelessness. All of these things are generally open to whoever wants to show up, but it’s understood there will be Polish people, or lawyers, or recovering addicts, etc there.

How is an LGBTQ Vespers any different? If you get there and there’s a deacon giving a talk before the prayers on how we should all support gay marriage, then I can see the discomfort. If it is simply a prayer group open to all but with a focus on one group that needs to pray and receive prayers right now, how is this any different from a service for homeless people?


#104

Who says not receiving Communion means you dont participate in Mass fully?

I’ve been to more Masses where I don’t receive than those where I do - I am scrupulous about only receiving Christ if I’m 100% sure I’m in the state of Grace.

I never felt like I was only “half participating” in Mass.

Honestly, the Masses where i dont receive I feel are more spiritually beneficial in a way. They teach me reverence, respect, patience, and longing for Our Lord.


#105

No one. But to the person who can’t it feel that way. Many converts and reverts have discussed this longing. In this case, all in the community can participate in Vespers.


#106

I had to go without receiving communion for a long time, and never felt not part of the Church and rejoiced when I was able to receive communion again.

My mother goes to Mass every weekend (finally) but does not receive communion because she refuses to go to Confession (for some weird reason). But she doesn’t feel ostracized.

This is why I feel we should return to a 3 hour fast before communion, that why people who cannot or do no receive communion will not feel judged.


#107

That was St. Augustine before he rejoined the Church and way before he became a priest and eventual Bishop.

Vespers isn’t a prayer group. That’s different. If they wanted to have a LBGTQ prayer group or outreach (like Courage) that would be fine. Dividing into groups for Vespers is not cool.

I would be equally upset about “Vespers for Men” or “Vespers for Grandparents.” Vespers is a public liturgy of the Church, not a small discipleship group.

God Bless.


#108

You keep telling yourself that.


#109

That’s great. But I doubt you have been shunned by family, friends, been told you were going to hell just because you are ___________. Community is what LGBTQ folks do, it’s what keeps them from killing themselves and want to live to see another day. If there are LGBTQ Catholics who want community in their parish why discourage it? If they want Vespers why discourage it?

I know that.

Why is it not cool? Could they have a LGBTQ Rosary? What can they have and what can’t they? I think the pastor gets to decide that, not you.

LIke so many things today:

Catholics: We should minister more to LGBTQ people.
LGBTQ folks: We want Vespers.
Catholics: Not that.

:roll_eyes:


#110

I have no problem with LGBTQ support groups in the Church for those who wish to be chaste and follow the Church’s teachings (like Courage). I welcome it and 100% support it. I used to be a member of a heterosexual support group for men who struggled with chastity at Church (until the group went under). But we kept it confidential. We didn’t parade around saying “look at us, we struggle with Chasity” << but that’s a different subject.

If inside their prayer group, they prayed Vespers in the meeting room as part of their group, that would be fine. But if Vespers is the sole activity, then it should be parish wide.


#111

Maybe it is. We don’t know.

ETA: This is one Sunday a month, mind.


#112

I presumed it is open to all, particularly since there may well be friends and family of LGBTQ people who are straight themselves but want to pray for their loved one who is not.

I have a serious problem with any prayer service or Mass that is not open to the general public.


#113

In the 2 I attended, it was open to everyone. I went partly out of curiosity, partly because I know people struggling with SSA etc.

I repeat, there was no gay agenda going on at either one. Everyone was respectful.

I have no idea whether that is so elsewhere.

Blessings, Stephie


#114

Why they hyperbole? No one is parading around. They want confidentiality. This is one parish offering Vespers to the LGBTQ community; how many offer nothing? And maybe those attending are sick to death of what Courage offers.

I am happy that Vespers is offered to this community. While it will bless all of them perhaps it will bring in those who are outside the church, or have one foot in and one foot out. For me it was the romance, the mysterious things like statues, my grandma’s chaplets, the books with gilt pages that captured by imagination as a child and as an adult, a beautiful church, a reverent liturgy where I can feel Catholic, are threads I’ve hung onto when my faith was weak. And why you or anyone else wants to deprive anyone from something that might minister to them, even if it’s just one, I do not understand.


#115

I do NOT want to deprive anyone from ministering to them. I’m totally for it. Maybe, I’m totally against the name, because I would be equally ticked off if we had “Italian Vespers in English.”

If Vespers is only part of the program, then it’s cool. If Vespers is the entire program, then it’s not cool to me because I would not be cool with any group getting a publicly advertised private Vespers service, while the rest of the Parish gets no Vespers service.

God bless


#116

And I’m totally cool with it. I’m pretty sure that no one who was not LGBTQ or LGBTQ-adjacent would not want to be there for there for parts of it. Unless they are nosey gossips.


#117

Read Goodbye Good Men, and you will understand why this concerns me.



#118

I read it when it first came out.


#119

“Popes In Hell” tonight, at Metropolis Arena in the final concert of the “Gay Vespers” tour.

Opening act is “The Liturgy Police”.


#120

You do realize that being gay is not a sin, right? Homosexuality is not a sin, to draw the parallel to “fornicator vespers” is just plain ole mean.


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