My Church has LGBTQ Vespers?


#121

Fair enough, and I think your analogy was good, the problem is that for example, my uncle is openly practicing homosexuality with a partner and he said that he goes to a Catholic Mass on Fridays that does not hold this ‘prejudice’ and they give him communion.

I guess I’m just not as naïve as some people here are, the Church is in crisis and the heresies are numerous. I think God has allowed this corruption for the proving of the elect.

God Bless You

Thank you for reading.


#122

True, I think it would be best if the O.P. just asked them about it so posters are not making assumptions.

O.P. There are ways you could ask that would help better understand what their true intentions are.

I agree.

God Bless You

Thank you for reading


#123

I agree.

God Bless You


#124

It’s not hard to entertain truth. It really isn’t. If the gay vespers are to pray for those who struggle with SSA, and for the should of our brethren who partake in “LGBTQRSTUVQXYZ” activity, for their conversion? Well, what a charism this is. To pray for sinners, to pray for those Catholic who have been blessed with such a cross, for Catholics who struggle every day with being in love with that which they know returns not a favour. This is a cross, not a compulsion. If these Vespers are prayed for those struggling souls, these faithful men and women neglected by the popular person, then an infinite of good will come.

But if the Vespers are an alternative for active sodomites who practise that and feel uncomfortable at Mass, then they ought to feel just as uncomfortable at Vespers. It is the Church’s public liturgical prayer.

The active homosexual might feel uncomfortable, though if he or she comes in earnest understanding and faith then they are to be welcomed and they ARE home.

The SINNER is HOME in the Church not because we accept their sin, no, because we are THEIR family and we are charged to LOVE them like parents and reflect the love of God. We are to love our neighbour as ourself so why will we stand by and pray for their continuance in sin through prayer? Why are we to stand aside and act as if their world cannot be impacted by the faith of God’s only Church. Why do we accept the active fault of mankind?

As Catholics we are to bear witness to the truth. Any parish offering Vespers for the LGBT cause is to be avoided. Any parish which offers Vespers for the LGBT people, who earnestly seek the faith and truth, is to be applauded because the results will be God glorifying for He himself knows His children and their hearts.

However: it is hard to accept truth. To realise truth. @R_H_Benson is on the right tract here. Even from traditionalists there is no cold shoulder towards those who are gay, who struggle with labels and with the nature of their sexuality. As children of God, as members of His Church, we are obligated to show them the way, the truth, the life. We are to bring them to our Blessed Mother.

If the LGBTQ Vespers excludes all that; avoid.


#125

Amen!

God Bless You


#126

I am shocked that a legit parish would have such a thing. Same sex attraction/actions and the like are gravely wrong. First, I’d ask the priest. If he accepts such immoral activities, I’d go then to the Bishop. If nothing is done, then your parish as a whole is basically committing the sin of scandal by making it seem that SSA and the like is okay. Personally, I’d feel I would have an obligation to stop such a gravely wrong thing if it were at my parish.

There are LOTS of Cafeteria Catholics out there. Unfortunately, from experience Cafeteria Catholics generally are very stubborn and won’t accept the Truth. We need to pray for them that their hearts may be softened to the Truth, and that conversion may come to them. There may be many, heck they may even be the majority. Even so, God never changes; PERIOD, no matter how much the CINOs want to change Him. We need to change ourselves to be like God completely.


#127

You are saying that SSA is “not okay” and “gravely wrong”. Are you familiar with what SSA means? Do you realize that you are saying something directly contrary to the Catechism of the Catholic Church?


#128

Actions yes, but SSA is just a temptation, and we all suffer from different temptations, it’s giving into those temptations which are a sin and gravely wrong depending on what the temptation is.

x2

x2 and if the Bishop does nothing, just find another Catholic Church and ride it out until Christ restores His Church from such corruption.

“and the like” is the crux of it, but SSA is simply a temptation, and as mentioned above, temptations aren’t sins.

God Bless You

Thank you for reading


#129

Certainly it may give rise to temptations. Whether it can be pigeon-holed as simply as that is another question. Most of us can experience sexual attraction to the opposite sex and that attraction may or may not give rise to temptations.


#130

Right. I know which sex I’m attracted to and most of the time it (the “attraction”) just sits there. Waiting. Once in a while it will perk up, like, “he’s interesting.” Same with SSA; it’s a persistant myth that same sex attracted people are interested undiscriminantly in every person if the same sex.


#131

It’s a really really annoying myth for those of us with SSA, too, because it leads to a lot more issues dealing with other people if we’re open about it.


#132

I think you are overthinking and over-worrying about this.
My first thought would be that many people of LGBTQ orientation feel uncomfortable going to mass because they think some don’t accept them. I think the priest is simply trying to find a way to welcome them in the church and get them into mass , as Pope Francis encouraged.

Wow. Um, my case in point.
This advice sounds very divisive and non-Catholic to me.


#133

Go to Mass in a prison and most or all of the attendees will be members of one or a couple of these groups - and in prison and singled out precisely because of those sins.

We should encourage them because Christ said he came for sinners and the sick, not the.virtuous.

His church is a feast where vagabonds and lepers, prostitutes and tax collectors, are invited and welcomed.

Do they all repent? Maybe not immediately, maybe not ever. For all we know or are told, the woman caught in adultery may have gone back to her adultering despite Christ’s admonition. Judas certainly was welcomed to the last supper despite his continuing in sin.

I can’t see Christ being quite so at pains to exclude as some here.


#135

Could you point out posts which express hatred. If a post is hateful, it should be reported.


#136

Not to pry, but are you saying that this was actually keeping you from going to Mass?

I can understand being wary of such a thing. Honestly, I can’t even imagine my pastor starting this up for fear that people would be scandalized exactly as you have been. But I sincerely hope you don’t let even just the imagined possibility that your pastor is encouraging sinful behavior keep you away from the Sunday Mass obligation. Frankly, even if your worst-case imagined scenario was true, that still shouldn’t keep us from going to Mass.

I’m glad you are meeting with a priest and hopefully he can assuage your fears. But even if he confirms your fears, where else would you go? We can’t just be Catholics at home. You said this is the only Catholic parish in your area. So you have to find a way to deal with it constructively. Staying away from Mass and the Church is not an option.


#137

That’s why it is all the more disturbing on the part of this particular parish, being the only Catholic Church in the area, to host events that alienate, confuse, or scandalize portions of its parishioners.


#138

I’ve been cycling through periods of adherence and faith crisis for the last 2 years. I got really close to leaving the Church completely for another faith, but I didn’t because the whole search made me realize that I really do believe in the Church.
I went to my church’s website to start brainstorming ways to get back involved and find contact information for the priests. That’s when I saw the LGBTQ Vespers, and it discouraged me some. However, I still went to All Saint’s Mass last night. It was great to be back in Mass, but it was conducted in a very Protestant-like style that didn’t make me feel much better about the parish.
I’m still going back Sunday, but this parish is definitely a bit discouraging for me and doesn’t make me feel great about my faith as someone with traditional leanings.


#139

I do think it’s a little silly to say these outreaches are to be inclusive when they just wind up alienating other members. They do all these outreaches that seem to mostly touch base with lukewarm Catholics or just appease non-Catholics who view the Church as intolerant and backward for professing the Truth on moral matters. Why does the Church seem to care more about those people than the ones who have a clear vested interest in preserving the Church (and are honestly more likely to be active members who help further the goals of the Church)?


#140

Which part is gravely wrong, for a parish to hold vespers, or to specifically invite those with SSA?


#141

I never said having homosexual tendencies was sinful. OK, fine… “fornicator vespers” is mean… but having a “LGBTQ Vespers” can be equated to “I’m tempted to cheat on my wife Vespers”

We pray to God to deliver us from temptation, yet society wants to celebrate this temptation. The Church needs to minister to the LGBTQ community, but should do so in a way that does not give mixed messages.

Names matter. LGBTQ Vespers / Gay Vespers is a very confusing name, which could imply to some that the Church or that Parish does not support what the Catechism teaches about homosexuality.

Obviously, this name scandalizes me, because the name immediately makes me think that this parish is not supporting what the Church teaches and is instead giving into the “gay lobby.” Perhaps, I’m dead wrong. But that’s why names matter.

BTW - and I still don’t like any group having an advertised, private Vespers service.

NOW - if the name of the Vespers service was “Vespers for the intentions of the faithful suffering from same sex attraction” for “Vespers for the conversion of the LGBTQ community” then that would be a few examples of a non-scandalous names, which show (1) the Vespers is open to all and (2) for the benefit of the LGBTQ community.

God Bless.


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