my fundamentalist friend claims its sinful for men to have long hair

She cites a passage from both the New and Old testament which states its sinful to wear his hair long.
What is best way to refute such a claim?

She also cites Matthew in which it is stated that praying repetitive prayers is not recommended. She therefore states that praying the rosary is not what God intended.

St Gideon the prophet from the book of Judges had long hair that he was not allowed to cut because he was a perpetual Nazirite. Read about it here:

Did he cite them?

I can “quote” scripture to you all day long. That doesn’t mean I’m not pulling it from twixt my own long strands of hair :stuck_out_tongue:

Also, your friend needs to recognize the difference between cultural norms and moral laws.

I am sorry, not St Gideon but Samson.

Haha. :smiley: Scripture also says that it’s sinful to get tatoos.

These are in the Bible, but do not apply to us. Certain guidelines were made in the Old Testament as part of the Old Law binding on Jews, and they were obligated to follow these laws.

We, as Catholics, are part of the new Covenant and are not bound by the laws in the Old Testament. I offer you to read the book of Leviticus. Many things are said about this and that making a person “unclean.” This includes eating animals that are cloven footed or “chew the cud”, camels, and swine.

These laws, and the many others laid out in Leviticus, are no longer binding.

Explain to her the rosary is the most biblical prayer that exists. It is a meditation on the life of Christ, not a bunch of repetitive prayers. The Hail Mary is taken almost completely from Scripture as is the Our Father, obviously. Explain the mysteries of the rosary to her and this is its true purpose. The prayers are simply a method of focusing our meditation on the life of Christ.

Matthew 6:7-8: Vain Repetition

Many non-Catholics believe that praying the rosary violates Jesus’ teaching about “vain repetition” found in His Sermon on the Mount:

“And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.” (Matthew 6:7-8)

Immediately after saying this, He went on to teach the crowd the following prayer:

"This, then, is how you should pray: ‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.’” (Matthew 6:9-13)

Jesus didn’t say, “You might want to say something like the following”…he said, “When you pray, say” and He gave us precise words that we should pray daily for our daily bread, and these words have been repeated for 2,000 years. Is this “vain repetition”? Hardly.

Consider these passages:

Matthew 26:43-44
43When he came back, he again found them sleeping, because their eyes were heavy. 44So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing.

Jesus prayed a third time saying the same things he had said previously. Is this “vain repetition”? Hardly.

Revelation 4:8
Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under his wings.Day and night they never stop saying: “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come.”

The creatures keep saying the same thing over and over and over again - day and night. Is this “vain repetition”? Hardly.

Show her a picture of Christ.

From this link:

…Christ forbade meaningless repetition (Matt. 6:7), but the Bible itself prescribes some prayers that involve repetition. Look at Psalms 136, which is a litany (a prayer with a recurring refrain) meant to be sung in the Jewish Temple. In the psalm the refrain is “His mercy endures forever.” Sometimes in Psalms 136 the refrain starts before a sentence is finished, meaning it is more repetitious than the rosary, though this prayer was written directly under the inspiration of God.

And then, of course, there’s Revelation 4:8

The four living creatures, each of them with six wings, were covered with eyes inside and out. Day and night they do not stop exclaiming: “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God almighty, who was, and who is, and who is to come.”

So much for singing “praise and worship” songs that have refrains. But of course, that doesn’t happen in her place of worship on Sundays, right?

“Long hair” is a relative statement. Back then what we call long hair was normal on men. Women wore their hair even longer.

Contextually Paul was basically saying that men and women should not try to be like each other (a common thing in our day). That is sinful.

As for vain repetition. I heard more babbling and “vain” repetition in my days with Fundamentalists than I have ever heard in my life. Challenge your friend to record a standard prayer in their church so they can glory at all the vain repetition after.

There is a world of difference between “vain repetition” and “repetition”.

Samson (the guy you’re actually talking about) follows a consecration that is described in Numbers 6 in the Old Testament. You abstain from cutting your hair among other things, in a vow of dedication to the Lord. It’s presumably why Jesus is depicted with long hair. :thumbsup:

Back on topic, I don’t think it’s sinful to have long hair… Just look to the Eastern side of the Church, the Orthodox seem to have the use of long hair and beard popular among the ordained (priests and bishops, as far as I’ve seen) and the religious. Not sure if there’s a symbolism or they’re taking the same Nazirite vow or whatever (would be interested to know if some expert in that area comes here. :)), but the main point is, the fact that they accept this makes that point of sinfulness unlikely. :wink:

What about Psalms 136 where, “His steadfast love endures forever” is repeated 26 times!

Also, Matthew 26:39-44, Jesus prays same prayer 3 times.

Revelations 4:8-- Angels and heavenly creatures sing “Holy, Holy, Holy” non-stop day and night forever!:angel1:

You’re not going to convince her. I would pick my battles, and this is not one challenge I would accept.

I wish men would dress like men and women like women. I think a lot of people will go to hell due to modern fashions. In fact, some saints have said as much, seers of Fatima and others.

Yes, Samson had long hair, and others, but I thought that was because they were consegrated to God from before birth. Long hair was part of that. I understand it was similar to how nuns will have their hair cut. It was a way of setting them apart.

I’m a little concerned, myself, about the way women can now pass for men, and men for women. I honestly have had times I can’t tell the difference and have to wait till he/she speaks and hope that will give a clue!

Whether it’s a sin, I am not sure. I just wonder why we are so unhappy being what God created us to be and are trying to be something we’re not. Why not just try to enter through the narrow door?

I want you to see this:

So, in other words, it will be difficult for even the JUST to go to heaven. So, why risk it?

Further, Our Lady of Fatima said certain fashions would come which would **greatly **offend God.

I also once read one account of a saint seeing a woman, in hell for dressing in something that was just the fashion of that day! So, just because it’s the fad doesn’t mean it is acceptable to God. I would recommend erring on the side of caution, if anything!

I would agree with your friend on the hair issue that we shouldn’t crossdress.

First look up her citations and then when you see with your own eyes that the passages do Not say that men are specifically required to cut their hair, point it out to her that the interpretation she’s been given for those passages are simply interpretations and ask her how she knows those telling her the interpretation of those passages have been given the authority to interpret the Bible?

Second ask her on what basis does she accept the ‘traditions of men’ aka ‘men must cut their hair under penalty of sin’ rather than the Traditions of God given to men through the Catholic Church when Jesus gave St. Peter (& all Catholic Popes) the Keys of the Kingdom with the promise that the gates of hell would never prevail against the Catholic Church.

Third follow that up with an invitation to the RCIA program where she will be able to ask questions and learn more about the Catholic Church.

Why would she care about such a thing.

Ask her if she goes and camps outside the city limits while menstrating. If she says no ask her why you should believe long hair is sinful.

When a woman has a discharge, if her discharge in her body is blood, she shall continue in her menstrual impurity for seven days; and whoever touches her shall be unclean until evening.Everything also on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean, and everything on which she sits shall be unclean. `Anyone who touches her bed shall wash his clothes and bathe in water and be unclean until evening. Leviticus 15:19-23

Or ask her if she remains silent in church.

1 cor 14:34.

Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says.

Ask her how she picks and choses what commands to follow.

Romans 14 deals with food, but can be applied to other things. Paul said that if a brother regards a particular food as unclean, to respect it, and by the same token if you eat all foods, he should respect that as well. Interestingly it is implied that the brother with the stricter rules is the brother with the weaker faith. Anyway this theme presents itself throughout Paul’s writings in regard to circumcision and other aspects of life. In short, respect your friends belief about long hair without argument, and ask that she do the same with you.

Well, call me weak, but I draw the line at camel-meat.

:mad:I wish men would dress like men and women like women. I think a lot of people will go to hell due to modern fashions. In fact, some saints have said as much, seers of Fatima and others. :frowning:

Remember that Fatima is considered by the Church to be a private revelation and we are not compelled to believe or follow it. If you truly think that people are going to hell for the manner in which they dress, then you do not have a basic understanding of the Faith. Please talk to a priest about your misconceptions. I’ll pray you find knowledge.

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