My personal experience with once saved always saved

I grew up in a universalist home even though my parents had me complete the sacraments to appease my grandparents. I didn’t know who jesus was until I was 30 years old and started attending a non denominational church. I found out jesus was god on my own reading the bible, but when the pastor taught once saved always saved it sent me into a deep depression because as an atheist/ agnostic I lived in the moment, at the non denominational church I knew jesus was god but my actions didn’t match the bible which clearly meant I wasn’t “saved”. After about three years at the evangelical church I started going to week day catholic mass and within a short time my depression went away and my sinful actions and desires went away. Does anyone else have a personal negative experience with once saved always saved

Don’t get me started…my friends and I could justify any deplorable action we wanted.

I was in an Anglican Evenagelical Church prior to being baptized as Catholic when I was 20 years old.
I was told all you need to do is believe in Jesus and you would go straight to heaven and that everyone else would go to Hell.
I was uncomfortable about this since I read the entire bible and that it’s clear that we need to actively turn away from sin and follow Jesus to get to heaven. We actually need to live good lives by doing good work and helping others.

It’s like it’s a trick of the devil that some Christians think that they can live sinful lives yet go straight to Heaven.
If that is the case then why are we tested? Why do we suffer?
Look at what the early matyrs had to endure but now they are Saints.
Who’s going to get to Heaven first, the person who was persecuted and killed for their faith or the person that when persecuted denied Jesus to save their life?

The bible says that the one who endures to the end will be saved.

I’m so happy God led me to his true church and I pray he leads others there too.

Sadly I think a number of people at my non denominational church took their life because of this teaching. I tried to talk to the pastor about it and he got very angry

I grew up in Anglican and Evangelical circles, rather than OSAS.

These circles emphasised that justification was by faith alone, and that good works flowed from faith and demonstrated it. This led to people doing enough “good works” in little things, such as attending church and “witnessing”, to prove that they had faith and thus could be confident they were “saved”, and then thinking they could get away with big things, eg. lying, hypocrisy, adultery. There was no concept that *mostly *good was not enough, and that one big sin would cut one off from God.

I always liked Fr. Donald Calloway ,MIC response to OSAS

“Were like toilets you always have to get them cleaned regularly. Oh wait, Once Clean Always Clean.”

There was an episode on ewtn- Journey home

youtube.com/watch?v=nvLULMqANAU

Was a good one on once saved always saved.

We teach a doctrine called perseverance. The elect, once called into a state of grace, will not lose their justification. We “make our election sure” (to ourselves" by continuing to grow in grace, particularly by the hearing of God’s word preached and the regular reception of Holy Communion.

Our assurance is ultimately based on the finished work of Christ. Unlike the RC who commits a mortal sin and then gets hit by a bus, we are sure that we are right with God because Jesus received the punishment for our sins at the cross. He paid the whole price and satisfied God’s just wrath against the elect.

“I am the good shepherd. I lay down my life for the sheep. … Ghe works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.”
John 10:11,25-28

In other words, Jesus died for his sheep, and his sheep will hear his voice and follow him. Either you are a sheep of Jesus and he died for you - you were saved - or he did not die for you, you do not hear his voice because you are not his sheep, and you were not saved.

Isn’t the use of language such as “elect” Calvinist? The way you talk about God’s wrath sounds very Calvinist because did he not create us out of love and say we were good? Having to have have Jesus between us and God as a “cover” in the way you describe sounds Calvinist. I think Catholics have a different understanding of redemption. Didn’t Calvin say we were all horrible worms in the sight of God and needed Jesus to cover our sins, while Catholic theology emphasizes that we are created in love.

I am no theologian so my apologies, but surely as Catholic we believe in a Just and Merciful Lord. if we had committed a terrible sin and then were knocked down by a bus God would surely look at our entire lives and give us the opportunity of Purgatory to repent. I’m not saying God would do that, none of us know but we trust in God’s mercy. If a soul had sinned God knows if that soul is open to repentance or not. Maybe this is not sound Catholic theology! My apologies again. I don"t presume on God but I do believe he loves us and is merciful and knows us better than we know ourselves.

Your second post sounds like Predestination which is not Catholic. Jesus died for all of us not just those who believe they are special and chosen.

Hello Kindness - I am not RC. Are we worms? Let us turn to the Bible.

"Do not be afraid, you worm Jacob,
little Israel, do not fear,
for I myself will help you,” declares the Lord,
“your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.”

Israel was helpless, like a worm, at the time of the Babylonian exile and God delivered his helpless people (whom he had chosen - and not because they were worthy) by the intervention of King Cyrus. How much better then are we the elect people of God for whom Christ died?

In your quote above, the sheep have to follow. Your quoted passage does not say that the sheep cannot stray. I believe that God will never give up on me but by sinning I give up on Him.

As Father Larry Richards says (I’m paraphrasing) God loves you enough to give you what you desire forever, if that desire is anything but Him, that is what you will have for eternity.

Saying that you are earmarked negates your free will.

Though I’m not a Calvinist myself, I went to a large Presbyterian church in Philadelphia for a year, and I’ve had very close Presbyterian friends and Baptist friends who believed in the Perseverance of the Saints–“Once a son or daughter of God, always a son or daughter of God”. We’ve discussed this numerous times. My church specifically states it does not teach that people, once having followed Christ cannot turn away, but, again, we’re allowed to discuss the idea.

So, my experience seeing this belief in other people’s lives is that it’s strengthened their faith and drawn them into deeper holiness of life and devotion. I think some people are greatly helped by believing God has them so securely in his hand. They believe that they are so unconditionally loved that they are always a beloved child of God and a forever member of His family, and it actually gives them confidence to repent, return, and finish the race in the assurance that their own wayward tendencies (of which they are well aware) will not win the day.

The people I personally know deeply who believe this are sensitive and thoughtful, psychologically aware, well acquainted with their own weakness and failings, and do well with this stronger assurance from God. I suspect they are the sensitive souls who would be tormented and despairing in scrupulosity if they were Catholic.

I don’t have time to post it this morning, but John Donne’s poem, “A Hymn to God the Father”, in its last stanza : “Swear by Thyself…” may help people under the idea of the Perseverance of the Saints.

This calls to mind the story of the Emperor’s New Clothes.

He was walking around buck nekkid, but was immensely happy and satisfied with himself.

But he was following a lie. His beliefs were not grounded in truth.

Similarly, just because someone is strengthened in their faith through a belief ought not be a factor in promoting that belief or encouraging one to continue in this false belief.

I think some people are greatly helped by believing God has them so securely in his hand. They believe that they are so unconditionally loved that they are always a beloved child of God and a forever member of His family,

Very Catholic, this!

and it actually gives them confidence to repent, return, and finish the race in the assurance that their own wayward tendencies (of which they are well aware) will not win the day.

This is a false assurance that could be fatal, unfortunately, to their soul.

The people I personally know deeply who believe this are sensitive and thoughtful, psychologically aware, well acquainted with their own weakness and failings, and do well with this stronger assurance from God. I suspect they are the sensitive souls who would be tormented and despairing in scrupulosity if they were Catholic.

Perhaps. But then they too are following a false belief in that their own weaknesses and failings could not be strengthened by the grace of God through the Holy Sacraments.

Fallen man does not desire God. Not unless and until the Father draws him.

If your priest is right then we are all hell-bound.

RCs simply have not grasped the severity and deadliness of sin if they think they can get through the gate without stain of “mortal” sin keeping them from God.

Jesus makes it clear in the Sermon on the Mount that even a bad word against your brother merits your being cast into hell-fire.

The doctrine of perseverance (once in grace, always in grace) makes one humble to the fact that he is fallen and never adequate to receive God’s mercy, yet trusting in Christ’s cross, and the power of God’s grace alone for sanctification and eventual glorification with the saints on the last day.

God’s covenant with Moses was one that could be and was severed and broken by the people’s obstinacy and disobedience - but his new covenant (Jer. 31:31-34) is not a conditional covenant on our side, but the one-way promise from God to men that Jesus Christ poured out his blood for the forgiveness of our sins (Matt. 26:28).

Did you miss the parts I bolded above? Sounds very Catholic to me.

Not all but most probably. In the words of Jesus;

13 ‘Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road is easy[d] that leads to destruction, and there are many who take it. 14 For the gate is narrow and the road is hard that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Matt 7:13-14

Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."

Matt 19:24

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