My questions to JW's


#1

ok, so we have a jw here at CAF, and i’d like to have a logical debate with him, or any other witness. and all of you can ask your questions here.

i don’t want to get into us verses them. that is not what this thread is about.

this thread will focus on the inconsistencies of the watchtower organization, and i’d like to have our witness friends if they would be so kind as to answer why they had inconsistencies in their belief. and why the governing body allowed these inconsistencies to be believed and then they changed their belief when the inconsistencies proved wrong.

one thing, please don’t get into attack mode. all i want is a logical question and answer session. if either poster doesn’t know the answer, can you please go to the library here, or google it? that would be appreciated.

Ok, here is from the CA library, the end dates that the witnesses
held as fact in their belief. my question to the jw’s here is why did the watchtower organization say these things, publish them, and uphold them as true facts? remember what the scriptures say, no man knows the hour or the day when the end will come. that being the case, how can the society try to state for fact that the end was coming on these dates, considering the Bible itself says no man knows the hour or the date when the end will come?

I’d like to ask our witness friends to please explain the above question posted to you.

Here is the end dates predicted by the watchtower society in the past:

WTS predicted the following:

1889 "The ‘battle of the great day of God almighty’ (Rev 16:14) which will end in AD 1914 . . . " (Studies, Vol. 2, 1908 edition, 101).
1891 “With the end of AD 1914, what God calls Babylon, and what men call Christendom, will have passed away, as already shown from prophecy” (Studies, Vol. 3, 153).
1894 “The end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble” (WT Reprints, 1-1-1894, 1605 and 1677).
1897 “Our Lord is now present, since October 1874 AD” (Studies, Vol. 4, 1897 edition, 621).
1916 “The six great 1000 year days beginning with Adam are ended, and that the great 7th day, the 1000 years of Christ’s reign began in 1873” (Studies, Vol. 2, p. 2 of foreword).
1917 “Scriptures . . . prove that the Lord’s Second Advent occurred in the fall of 1874” (Studies, Vol. 7, 68).
1918 “Therefore, we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and the faithful prophets of old” (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 89).
1922 “The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the scriptures than 1914” (WT, 9-1-1922, 262).
1923 “1925 is definitely settled by the scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge” (WT, 4-1-1923, 106).
1925 “The year of 1925 is here. . . . Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year” (WT, 1-1-1925, 3).
1931 “There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah’s faithful ones on earth concerning the dates 1914, 1918, & 1925 . . . and they also learned to quit fixing dates” (Vindication, 388, 389).
1939 “The disaster of Armageddon is just ahead” (Salvation, 361).
1941 “Armageddon is surely near . . . soon . . . within a few years” (Children, 10).
1946 “Armageddon . . . should come sometime before 1972” (They Have Found a Faith, 44).
1966 “Six thousand years from man’s creation will end in 1975, and the seventh period of a thousand years of human history will begin in the fall of 1975 C.E” (Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God, 29).
1968 “The end of the six thousand years of man’s history in the fall of 1975 is not tentative, but is accepted as a certain date” (WT, 1-1-1968, 271).

catholic.com/library/Stumpers_for_Jehovah_Witnesse.asp


#2

Hi
I would request that instead of a debate, let it be a duscussion and instead of wactchtower consistencies, please discuss attributes of **JWsGod **and CatholicGod as that is more important issue than the one proposed.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.


#3

sorry, but i want the post the way it is. if you want to open a thread about what you suggested, then please do so. this is not about what you requested. its asking jw’s a specific topic that i’d like to have answered if possible. thank you.


#4

I think you misread TC’s OP. It is specifically geared to INconsistancies.

The inconsistancy in their doctrines. Personally, I don’t see it addressed in their official webpage, but it may have been I just have not found it there.
So, it will be interesting to see JW answers to this.


#5

:whistle:

Quiet as a mouse in here. Wonder why?

And I had all sorts of questions for them too. Drats.

Like, when was eve created? Has that date been **changed **to fit the 75 false prediction or not?:confused:

I have many more. Their literature gets me really upset. Its chock full of all sorts of falsity.


#6

It’s not that I mind the original post, but I don’t think you’ll find a JW that will take the bait. They’re only interested in discussing two things:

1 - Why non-WT beliefs are wrong.
2 - Why WT beliefs are correct.

They are NOT interested in discussing why WT beliefs are wrong. The ones who will discuss it will just simply invoke their doctrine of “new light” and “the eyes of understanding” then dismiss the topic. One needs to be very subtle in introducing WT errors/inconsistancies.


#7

You’ve got it right! They are not to question the WT so they will not answer. They don’t believe there are inconsistencies at all…


#8

Contrary to what this quote from Catholic Answers says, Jehovah’s Witnesses have never claimed to be inspired prophets. They have made mistakes. Like the apostles of Jesus Christ, they have at times had some wrong expectations.—Luke 19:11; Acts 1:6.

The Scriptures provide time elements related to Christ’s presence, and Jehovah’s Witnesses have studied these with keen interest. (Luke 21:24; Dan. 4:10-17) Jesus also described a many-featured sign that would tie in with the fulfillment of time prophecies to identify the generation that would live to see the end of Satan’s wicked system of things. (Luke 21:7-36) Jehovah’s Witnesses have pointed to evidence in fulfillment of this sign. It is true that the Witnesses have made mistakes in their understanding of what would occur at the end of certain time periods, but they have not made the mistake of losing faith or ceasing to be watchful as to fulfillment of Jehovah’s purposes. They have continued to keep to the fore in their thinking the counsel given by Jesus: “Keep on the watch, therefore, because you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.”—Matt. 24:42.


#9

:thumbsup: exactly! that we both agree on!


#10

Why have their been inconsistencies in Science? Scientists have had beliefs that later proved wrong. They then changed their belief and kept testing…

The Catholic Church has made decisions for which they later apologized. I guess they decided that previous decision was wrong and they moved to correct it.

Do you fault scientists for this?

Steve


#11

The WTS and The Catholic Church have differences in their understandings of scripture. The BIG point is, Who decides which understanding is correct

And they asked him, “Teacher, when will this be, and what will be the sign when this is about to take place?” And he said, "Take heed that you are not led astray; for many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am he!’ and, ‘The [FONT=Arial]time is at hand!’ Do not go after them. (Lk 21:7-8)[/FONT]


#12

Why have their been inconsistencies in Science? Scientists have had beliefs that later proved wrong. They then changed their belief and kept testing…

The Catholic Church has made decisions for which they later apologized. I guess they decided that previous decision was wrong and they moved to correct it.

Do you fault scientists for this?

Yes, the Church has made decisions for which they later apologized, but never ones of defined doctrine. Those have never changed

Steve,
Does this mean your admitting that the WTS is NOT God’s Sprirt directed organization? Because I don’t think scientists have made the claim they (the scientists) are.


#13

[quote=BibleSteve]Why have their been inconsistencies in Science? Scientists have had beliefs that later proved wrong. They then changed their belief and kept testing…

The Catholic Church has made decisions for which they later apologized. I guess they decided that previous decision was wrong and they moved to correct it.

Do you fault scientists for this?

Steve
[/quote]

Science is wrong because a system of finding evidence and changing scientific theories is build into the scientific method. A scientist is never happer than when he is wrong. They’re tweaked like that :smiley:

The Catholic Church has never made an Excathera decisions for which it later apologized for.


#14

I am saying the WTS has explicitly said many times “we are not inspired”, “we are not infalliable in speech or writing”, “we are not claiming infallibility like the Pope does”.

The Catholic Answers quote above (which TraditionalCath) editted off says we have “claimed to be inspired prophets”… which is completely incorrect.

JW’s like Catholics pray for God’s Holy Spirit.
JW’s like Catholics believe God’s Holy Spirit directs us.

So, we may be using different terminology than you. We use “spirit-directed” and specifically say we are not “inspired”, reserving that term for the Bible writers.

What do Catholics call the Holy Spirit link between the Catholic Church and God?

Steve


#15

we call the Catholic Church the True Church of Christ, the repository of the Fullness of Truths.

The Infallibilty of the Pope is not the only infallibility–there is also Infallibility of the Church and Infallibility of the Ordinary and Universal Magisterium. here is the wikipedia link explaining them all:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infallibility_of_the_Church

Ravyn


#16

Has this Always been the case Bible Steve?

Was there ever a time when the JW’s said Otherwise?:hmmm:

I just want to be certian…


#17

Every since the very beginning (1880) down today I can produce many times the WT has said these exact quotes:

“We are not inspired”
“We do not claim to be inspired in speech or writing”
“We do not claim to be infallible like the Pope does”.
“We do not claim the gift of prophesy”

Steve


#18

Would the first one be more fully quoted as

“We are not inspired BY MEN”?:hmmm:

Which is fine, we are not either. :wink:

Has there ever been mention of Angelic guidance?

I really dont doubt the Pope crack :frowning: since you dont bother to give to your members the full explaination of “infallible” in the Pope’s role but whatever. You are going to have a hard time keeping them ignorant for much longer thanks to the internet Bible Steve. :cool:

They can learn the unbiased truth about the CC right here and a zillion other places. :thumbsup:

And they do come.


#19

Would the first one be more fully quoted as

“We are not inspired BY MEN”?

Which is fine, we are not either.

Has there ever been mention of Angelic guidance?

Hi:

I believe the following links will answer your questions above:

quotes-watchtower.co.uk/god_s_channel.html

quotes-watchtower.co.uk/god_s_prophet.html

Jeff S.


#20

Excellent sites Jeff. Including yours at cathlolicxjw.com

I didn’t know they were out there.

May God bless your ministry.

I also would like to add that in my personal experience with JW’s, they’re likely to simply deny authenticity when presented with this type of information.


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