NC Register "Are the Holy See and the United Nations Too Close for Comfort?"

Are the Holy See and the United Nations Too Close for Comfort?

NEWS ANALYSIS: The relationship has come under closer scrutiny of late.


The largest religious organization in the world is working with the largest international political organization in the world to promote (quoting the article) the “dignity and worth of the human person.” Not sure what the problem is with that.


Uh…,UN is a promoter of Abortion and Contraception across the entire world. Not sure how that is “dignity and worth of the human person.”


Lots of organizations are good for some things, and bad for others. Do you think the Church should withdraw from the international scene? Or should it try to make a positive impact? I think the answer is obvious.


" I think the answer is obvious." I do as well. Be the Light Christ intended the Church to be, but do not ally with any organization that promotes sin.


So, don’t work with any government, any political body, any international organization? Can you name any of those you would approve the Church working with, or would you have the Church withdraw from public discourse altogether?

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Well I do not think the Catholic Church should uncritically work with a state that conducts “brain washing” on a religious minority to be honest. Unless you know differently, I have not heard a squeak from the Pope about this :
BBC Report.
Data leak reveals how China ‘brainwashes’ Uighurs in prison camps


So is this just becoming another general Pope bashing thread?

I don’t know if the Pope has individually criticized every bad thing every country has done, but I don’t think that withdrawing from the world is the correct reaction to the unsurprising observation that virtually all governments do lots of bad things.


Huh??? Now how in the world did you draw that conclusion?

The church has been pushed out of any public discourse by the atheist governments and indeed societies of most countries. In the US, the separation of church and state mantra has accomplished this completely. If the pope is re-entering this discourse, it is only if he abandons fundamental Christian and Catholic positions. His role will be limited to making some vague comments on global warming, equality of all religions (a heretical statement) and population control. In the process he is setting aside things like “thou shalt not kill”.


Wow. So the Pope is heretic, the Church has abandoned Christianity and only you (I guess) remains a real Christian. Cheerful outlook.

Seriously? The Pope was accused (out of the blue and out of context) of ignoring human rights abuses in the post right before mine, and straight up accused of heresy in the post after mine. So, yeah, just another Pope basing thread on this supposedly Catholic forum.


This is heretical. Look it up.


The CHURCH, historically, did the work of caring for the poor, the displaced, the downtrodden for centuries. Prior to the establishment of “the State” the saving of Souls and the aiding of the poor, the infirm, the oppressed was the work of the Church. Courtesy of the reformation and the atheistic Enlightenment the Church was pushed out of this arena in many of the newly created countries in western Europe either by the new Protestant controlled Governments, or by the Atheists who controlled the governments like France post revolution. Catholic Hospitals, Orphanages, Monasteries and Convents continued to work where they were allowed to. Fast forward to today and the atheist secular culture has pushed the Church into the shadows in most of the developed world and these tasks have been usurped by the likes of United Way and other secular, humanist agencies with distinctly anti Christian agendas.
So no, I do not think the Church should ally or engage with these organizations. Just look at the Catholic Campaign For Human Development debacle. The Church can, and should return to these tasks under the pure teachings of Christ without compromising the Faith. To borrow a Benjamin Franklin saying, " "He that lieth down with dogs shall rise up with fleas ".
Anyone who desires can clearly see the results of the compromises of the last 55 years.


And let`s see who has received a recent invitation to speak at the Vatican…
National Catholic Register Feb 5 2020

“Population Control Advocate Jeffrey Sachs Attacks Trump Administration at Vatican Gathering”


I disagree, obviously, but I am curious why you say 55 years. Are you suggesting that Vatican II is to blame somehow? Or was there some other event 55 years ago?

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It’s all Vatican II, plus secularist, socialist, communist, humanist, homosexualists, relativists.

And the Pope.

Incidentally, I have just realised (and apparently verified by Ed Pentin) that the man alongside Sachs and enjoying his speech-in the picture above (and in the video within the article) is Bishop Marcelo Sanchez Sorondo, whose claim to fame is this:

So this is related to your OP how? And are you not dependent on media’s reporting of the Holy Father’s statements for what you hear? Perhaps unreported? And do you likewise criticize Pius XII for silence towards Germany?

Why do you think the Holy See us uncritically working with the UN it China? I will point out that there were Catholics in Poland in 1963 who opposed John Paul II being made archbishop if Krakow because he would work with the communist government. Indeed, the communist government supported his selection. But he was not uncritically cooperative as people assumed, he just was careful about choosing his battles (and then of course he became Pope and was more vocal when he saw his opportunity to ultimately prevail).

My point is you assume too much about the Holy See’s approach.

Msgr. Sanchez Sorondo is not new to praise for China. In February 2017, at an international meeting on organ trafficking, he defended Beijing against the charge of forced transplants operated by Chinese doctors on prisoners and death row inmates.

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