Nearly half of countries are producing too few babies to maintain their populations, say researchers


I think that worrying about how to pump more people onto a planet that is already dying an early death because of human activity is like worrying about how to arrange the deck chairs on the Titanic. Our time might be better spent trying to figure out how to clothe, feed, shelter and educate the people who are already here. Instead, we vote for politicians and support leaders who promote policies that kill mass quantities of the people we already have. Leaders who sell arms to Saudi Arabia so they can commit genocide in Yemen. Leaders who manufacture engineered wars to swell the pockets of federal contractors and corporations like Halliburton. Religious leaders who evangelize in AIDS infested countries and teach that contraception is a grave sin, which is like lighting a match in a munitions factory, no matter how self righteous the intent. Let’s not kid ourselves. Such things have killed a lot of people. And each person we have killed in these ways would have contributed the births of many more people in the course of a few generations. The answer is not to keep cranking out as many people as we can so that we can annihilate them with our broken system of casino capitalism that at its core cares for nothing but power and profit margins, while poisoning the planet that serves as the only platform to support the lives we propose to increase in number. If we spent some time fixing the way we think, and getting our heads straight, we might see more clearly such things as the fact that high birth rates are a survival strategy for lemmings and fruit flies, not creatures of intellect such as ourselves.

All the best!


12 billion? Isn’t that an increase of almost 5 billion people from what we have now?

According to the UN studies there are different scenarios.
Medium scenario
Low scenario
High scenario
Zero growth scenrio
constant fertility scenario.
Under the medium, and zero growth scenarios, the population is kept constant and it will decrease under the low scenario. “However, If, for the sake of illustration, the fertility of countries is kept constant at 1995-2000 levels, the world population soars to 244 billion by 2150 and 134 trillion in 2300.”
More realistically, " in the high scenario, whose fertility remains at or above replacement level until 2300 …, the world population, which reaches 10.6 billion in 2050, is projected to keep on rising steadily to attain 36.4 billion in 2300."


But 1995-2000 levels isn’t where we’re at. It’s lower so you can discard that as quoted.

2300 is so far away no serious person uses it with great certainty. And fertility rates are declining. This is an excellent presentation by the late Hans Rosling. I skipped it to the relevant part.


The media and entertainment have a lot of power. There seems to be a de-emphasis of the importance of family, and even attacks on traditional families.


My point is this:
For those who can have children and want to have 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 or more go ahead if you are able to. Don’t believe the lies about an overpopulation event that won’t happen and ignore the shaming you get from others. Who cares what they think.

According to this NASA paper, the Earth could support 14 - 40 billion people.


Honestly, this was me reading this thread:

I probably should have stopped reading, but it’s like a car wreck. You just can’t look away.


Probably could, but at what cost? How many more acres of forest, plains, and desert shall we wipe out for new housing, farms, or other human activities? How much more fauna and flora shall we destroy?


We’re not going to end up in such a situation. But even if we’re close to it, it doesn’t have to be like that. Land usage policies in many places, particularly in North America is atrocious. Luckily, most places don’t follow what we do.


Actually, the plan is not to harvest algae from the ocean, but rather to farm it in vats. Since algae grows well in sewage, it has the added benefit of cleaning up wastewater. In fact, the whole Asian Carp problem in the Midwest was caused by them escaping containment during Hurricane Katrina; the carp had been imported for use as a biocontrol against algae blooms in sewage treatment plant effluents.


And I think you’re totally out of touch with reality. It’s not the industrialized nations who produce the bulk of pollution, but rather developing countries. Why? Because people will tolerate pollution if it means having food and shelter, but once they’re rich enough to feel secure in their necessities, they quickly regard pollution as a problem threatening their health. Once people can afford to eat well, they focus on securing safe water supplies for drinking and hygiene, necessarily involving a proper sewage system. Such investment pays massive dividends, as it improves not only life expectancy but also worker productivity, as people lose fewer days to illness, which in turn makes mitigation of air pollution affordable.


Evaporate off the brine and collect the resulting salt. Plenty of food manufacturers are willing to buy sea salt.


But that is exactly the situation we are already in, with vast areas of forest being destroyed all over the world and biodiversity declining.

People argue here that the planet can support more people: of course it can, for the time being. But at what cost to the rest of life?


I finally have the time to try this post again. Sorry, I really wasn’t avoiding you. Life for moms sometimes is crazy!

Waste is never good. It is something God seems to really be annoyed about. Wasting resources, and waste in general, is spoken of many times in the Old Testament, and it seems Jesus reconfirmed this in the New Testament. The story of feeding the multitude comes to mind. After Jesus fed such a large crowd on such a small amount (a sign of His providence to us), he asked for the leftovers to be collected so that nothing is wasted.

Honestly I don’t know the answer to this. My deeply personal belief is that no, God would not allow that to occur. There are many things that seem to confirm this to me. One of course is the Flood of Noah. He wiped humanity down to nothing to begin anew. Other signs are wars, famines, diseases, and other plagues that have also drastically reduced numbers. The falls of many civilizations following long periods of greed, waste, and other sinful behaviors that became ingrained in their cultures have been followed by a thinning of humanity and a rebirth of sorts also seem to support this belief that God won’t allow the population to outgrow our home.

I’ve also seen His generosity extended beyond imagination, in ways that can’t be explained. These are times that I have somehow fed my family plus several unexpected guests on the same amount of food that I prepare JUST for my family. Usually with plenty of leftovers. An example not from my family is a former neighbor who was fleeing an abusive spouse. She somehow made it across six states to reach her parents on one tank of gas and $15 cash. She and her 4 children made it safely. Advances in agriculture have made it possible to grow crops in environments and conditions that would have been unthinkable, and they are always researching for more ways to improve production and safety. The fact that we no longer gather food readily available (dandelions, insects, wild strawberries, are just the very tip of what is out there for free) and most don’t even know how to recognize what is edible shows how easily we are supporting the current population.


Continued from above

God does and will provide IF we allow Him to. The sinfulness of man and our pride makes us believe we need better, deserve more, and should be allowed to cast aside and discard what we no longer desire. That is where our downfall will come from. And it also creates an internal conflict for me. I trust very deeply that God will provide and care for us, but the ones who accept this, the poor especially, are the first to suffer the results of humanitiy’s sins. God’s ways of helping us are not always (honestly usually aren’t) the ways I want. It is often through sacrifice, suffering, and heartbreak that His comfort is shown. I am human and don’t want to experience that. I believe the righteous are rewarded in heaven, but I don’t want them to suffer here on earth either. It is very hard. So I try to allieviate suffering as best I can for the ones I meet and I attempt to live God’s laws as best I can to maybe mitigate some of the “punishments” for the greed, waste and destruction. Punishments really isn’t the word but I don’t know what to call it. The punishments are more like natural consequences for not doing what we should, not directly from the Hand of God.

Sorry this was so long, but I thought you deserved an answer.


To be brutally honest, last night was such a crazy night at my house, I was considering the fact that my own home is overpopulated! Between two fussy babies recovering from shots, two teens with their running around, an adult child whose car broke down on her way home, and a husband that is out of town, I was kind of rethinking all this. But then this morning my kids made me breakfast and insisted on taking the day off from everything to just be home together after Mass, and I remembered how blessed I am. The world is a better place when we have lots of love to surround us with.


If you look at the developing countries of the world, you will see a paradigm shift. The agrarian countries still see children as a source of labor while the other developing countries who are moving towards industrialization are starting to see children as an expense. These countries are following the footsteps of the Western countries who have industrialized a lot earlier.

There are several factors that do contribute to a dwindling population, but I think industrialization, with the center of production shifting away from the home to the factory is a big if not the biggest contributor.


I hear that they taste good.


Indeed, but they require so much labor to prepare that only about 1% of the market price goes to the fishermen.


When the end of the world comes, I’m going South to fish carp, hunt pig, and eat kudzu.


I don’t see where what you have said has any bearing on my post. Sounds like you have started another topic wherein you would like to put forth the idea that industrialized nations had no part in creating the ecological situation we’re faced with. That’s not even worth debating. That said, I will agree with you that hygienic innovations such as indoor plumbing have been some of the biggest contributors of modern longevity, but the linkage between that and my position is weak. It’s just way off.

All the best!

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