Nearly half of the US threatens to secede


#1

Some Americans upset with the results of Election Day don’t quite agree, and now residents from 20 states have filed petitions with the White House to secede from the country.
Louisiana became the first of the (as of now) 50 united states that managed to collect enough signatures to have their petition for secession added to the White House’s website last week, and so far they’ve had no problem finding company. A petition asking for the government to “Peacefully grant the State of Louisiana to withdraw from the United States of America and create its own NEW government” garnered more than 14,000 signatures since going live on November 7, and so far 19 other states have managed to attract similar success.

rt.com/usa/news/us-secede-petition-government-540/

Do you agree with this article? Do American's feel this strongly about the situation?


#2

I think Texas is the only one who can because it is in by treaty because it was an independent nation. If Balkanization gets worse an amicable separation may be better than the other option.


#3

I don't agree with the article. And I don't see all this 'unrest' here where I live. I'm sure people are upset in various parts of the country. It's difficult when one's favorite doesn't will the Election. But part of belonging to a republic is living with the consequences of a popular vote putting one candidate in Office over another. If they hate it that much, why don't they just leave the US and go somewhere else?


#4

[quote="BernardM, post:2, topic:305016"]
I think Texas is the only one who can because it is in by treaty because it was an independent nation. If Balkanization gets worse an amicable separation may be better than the other option.

[/quote]

Texas was an independent nation because the US refused their first petition to join the Union.

Balkanization is precisely what the bulk of the American people will not tolerate.

This nonsense comes up every time the Democrats win. A small group of sore losers tries to start a movement that goes nowhere.


#5

Yet the same people promote it.


#6

[quote="SamH, post:5, topic:305016"]
Yet the same people promote it.

[/quote]

And how do they do that? Who in their right mind would want to see 50 independent nations on this continent? The possibilities are almost too horrible to imagine.

It would make Bleeding Kansas look like a Sunday picnic.


#7

[quote="oldcelt, post:4, topic:305016"]
Texas was an independent nation because the US refused their first petition to join the Union.

[/quote]

Texas may come to rue the day they persisted. Texas as a country would be more viable and more prosperous than the rest of the USA if they seceded. They're aware of that too.

[quote="oldcelt, post:4, topic:305016"]
Balkanization is precisely what the bulk of the American people will not tolerate.

[/quote]

I agree that balkanization in a true form would put people at risk, but vesting power in the states rather than the federation is what the original framers of the constitution had in mind. They never meant to create another empire who oppressed the people, like England in the 17th century.

[quote="oldcelt, post:4, topic:305016"]
This nonsense comes up every time the Democrats win. A small group of sore losers tries to start a movement that goes nowhere.

[/quote]

Not to this degree.


#8

[quote="oldcelt, post:6, topic:305016"]
And how do they do that? Who in their right mind would want to see 50 independent nations on this continent?

[/quote]

How many "hyphenated" Americans are there? Who promotes the distinction of races and transplanted nationalism?


#9

The idea of Balkanization will undermine American unity.


#10

Except what we have now is not unity, it’s domination.


#11

Just because some disaffected individuals put petitions on a website doesn’t mean that the actual States themselves are considering splitting from the Union.


#12

That may or may not be true.


#13

[quote="oldcelt, post:6, topic:305016"]
Who in their right mind would want to see 50 independent nations on this continent?

[/quote]

I don't think it would actually end up this way. Similar minded states would join together for a number of reasons (economic, agricultural, infrastructure, etc.) - so in the end you would not have 50 nations - I'm guessing maybe six, with Texas being one on their own --- just because they are Texas and they can. :p

I don't see this as an impossibility. Not in my lifetime probably, but eventually I think this will come to pass.

~Liza


#14

[quote="iloveangels, post:12, topic:305016"]
That may or may not be true.

[/quote]

What truly makes me chuckle is that these people believe that if they form their own nations everything will be hunky-dory. What they forget is that they will still be populated by people of diverse views and religious backgrounds.

What happens when the inevitable happens and they begin to vehemently disagree with each other? Do they split again? Do they acknowledge the will of the majority? Do they deport or execute dissenters?

And what about their neighbors? If they disagree on, say, religion, do you attack them? Do we have a series of holy wars in North America?

What about defense?...and on and on.

This is a pipe dream being promoted by a very small group in each of these states. When they have 4 or 5 million petitioners in Texas...let me know.


#15

[quote="oldcelt, post:14, topic:305016"]
What truly makes me chuckle is that these people believe that if they form their own nations everything will be hunky-dory. What they forget is that they will still be populated by people of diverse views and religious backgrounds.

What happens when the inevitable happens and they begin to vehemently disagree with each other? Do they split again? Do they acknowledge the will of the majority? Do they deport or execute dissenters?

And what about their neighbors? If they disagree on, say, religion, do you attack them? Do we have a series of holy wars in North America?

What about defense?...and on and on.

This is a pipe dream being promoted by a very small group in each of these states. When they have 4 or 5 million petitioners in Texas...let me know.

[/quote]

Yes, but there are distinctively regional attitudes and ways of doing things. It's entirely possible that this breaking up will indeed happen, with some areas going to Canada, some becoming hispanic and some remaining in some sort of eastern seaboard federation. The lessons from the history of the world are very clear. No country lasts forever, and doing some things tends to doom countries to certain kinds of events. We resemble nothing quite as much as Rome. We're probably not going to last as long as they did though. Or rate of significant historical events is much higher. We're stepping through the process very quickly. We're already to "bread and circuses."


#16

[quote="iloveangels, post:15, topic:305016"]
Yes, but there are distinctively regional attitudes and ways of doing things. It's entirely possible that this breaking up will indeed happen, with some areas going to Canada, some becoming hispanic and some remaining in some sort of eastern seaboard federation. The lessons from the history of the world are very clear. No country lasts forever, and doing some things tends to doom countries.

[/quote]

It will never happen peacefully, and I personally don't expect to see it at all.

John


#17

First, the article is a very inaccurate portrayal of the petitions, the numbers and their meaning. Based on a quick review of the numbers, the total number of petitioners for ALL the states is about the same as the population of a small city. In other words, about 4 ten-thousandths of the voting population of the U.S. Second, the petitions are not "threats" and those signing the petitions have no power or authority to effect the secession of any state. Stuff like this article belongs in a tabloid next to the supermarket checkout.

What is really amazing is that the Obama White House encourages people to petition the government in this way; what a great symbol of democracy.

But think about the implications of even a few, much less twenty, states seceding and each forming their own national governments. What a huge mess that would be.


#18

[quote="chaunceygardner, post:17, topic:305016"]
First, the article is a very inaccurate portrayal of the petitions, the numbers and their meaning. Based on a quick review of the numbers, the total number of petitioners for ALL the states is about the same as the population of a small city. In other words, about 4 ten-thousandths of the voting population of the U.S. The petitions are not "threats" and the those signing the petitions have no power or authority to effect the secession of any state. Stuff like this article belongs in a tabloid next to the supermarket checkout.

What is really amazing is that the Obama White House encourages people to petition the government in this way; what a great symbol of democracy.

But think about the implications of even a few, much less twenty, states seceeding and each forming their own national governments. What a huge mess that would be.

[/quote]

AMEN


#19

[quote="chaunceygardner, post:17, topic:305016"]
First, the article is a very inaccurate portrayal of the petitions, the numbers and their meaning. Based on a quick review of the numbers, the total number of petitioners for ALL the states is about the same as the population of a small city. In other words, about 4 ten-thousandths of the voting population of the U.S. The petitions are not "threats" and the those signing the petitions have no power or authority to effect the secession of any state. Stuff like this article belongs in a tabloid next to the supermarket checkout.

What is really amazing is that the Obama White House encourages people to petition the government in this way; what a great symbol of democracy.

But think about the implications of even a few, much less twenty, states seceeding and each forming their own national governments. What a huge mess that would be.

[/quote]

Yeah, I don't think that's why they have that website up. You can't judge what's going on on the ground by what you see there. This desire to leave may or may not strong in some people, or in some places. The people who are the most serious about it are probably not going to put it there.

Incidentally, I had to smile. There are even threads about leaving on this forum.


#20

[quote="oldcelt, post:6, topic:305016"]
And how do they do that? Who in their right mind would want to see 50 independent nations on this continent? The possibilities are almost too horrible to imagine.

It would make Bleeding Kansas look like a Sunday picnic.

[/quote]

Founding Fathers. We were designed to be 50 independent states with a strong defense alliance.


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