In a discussion with a Protestant, and I noticed something that would make a good apologetic argument, but I have to solidify it first without going off half-ready.
So there is much debate about “until”, specifically how it relates to the virginity of Mary.
Matthew 1:25 But he did not consummate their marriage **until **she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.
Many Protestants argue that obviously she and Joseph had relations after the birth of Jesus. Catholics say that “until” doesn’t always mean a change in status.
Well in arguing about Purgatory with him, I cited the verse from Matthew and Luke:
Matthew 5:26 Truly I tell you, you will not get out** until **you have paid the last penny.
Luke 12:59 I tell you, you will not get out **until **you have paid the last penny."
So in these verses, it’s obvious that Jesus is talking about something spiritual here, because He’s not just giving self-help advice. The Protestant argued that there is only Heaven, earth and hell, and no such thing as Purgatory. So I demanded he explain where this punishment described by Jesus is happening. It obviously isn’t earth, as we noted earlier, and it can’t be Heaven. So he was left with the only option of saying it must be hell. I asked him about what happens after you “pay the last penny”. You don’t get out of hell. So his argument was that you never finish paying the penalty and there is no change in status.
At this point I pounced and demanded he state definitively if the word “until” demands a change in status or not. He refused to answer, because he saw the problem he just opened up. He realized that if he says that “until” doesn’t demand a change in status, then Catholics are right about the “until” in relation to Mary. If he says “until” does require a change in status, then his claim about Purgatory is false and Catholics are right. Either way, one of his doctrines is wrong. He quickly stopped responding and has remained quiet since.
But I wanted to do some extra homework and bring this here.
Any resident experts on here who can speak about the three passages here, and the words used in the original language, and if they are the same, have same meaning, etc? I want to make sure I’m not on the wrong track and get proven wrong at a later date.
Thanks in advance.