Need clarification from a protestant


“Bless this building,” prayed Rev. Tracey Lind, Dean of Cleveland’s Trinity Episcopal Cathedral, at the abortion facility. “May its walls stand strong against the onslaught of shame thrown at it. May it be a beacon of hope for those who need its services.”

first is this a belief in the episcopal church? do they consider abortion wrong? this church is a historic one but is it a fringe sect? who gets to say they have read the book wrong, if they have? what hierarchy can correct their teaching on this if it needs corrections?

to me this is a reason i doubt sola scriptura. why shouldn’t it be representative of the problem of sola scriptura?


At first, I was willing to give these folks these benefit of the doubt. I thought, Okay, this pastor is blessing the actual building and trying to shield it from the destruction of abortion that it is holding. Bless the walls so they won’t get tainted by the evil.

That was until I saw the last sentence. All that glitters is not gold.


Mainline Protestantism is dying. It has largely gotten progressive to the point that “why bother participating in organized religion?” has become a very valid question. They get so liberal that they stop coming. While a few conservatives have broken off into more fundamentalist versions of those churches, most conservatives just defect to evangelicalism or Catholicism.

Many of the old, historical east-coast episcopal churches function as museums now. I wouldn’t concern myself much with the Episcopal Church. In a few decades most of their buildings that don’t receive public funding as landmarks will be crumbling. Those beautiful, dead church buildings are just too expensive to maintain.


I’m from Cleveland. This isn’t a fringe group. Rev. Tracy Lind was pretty well known because she was a married gay Reverend. She had to step down from her position last year because she became ill with a progressive brain disease.


Oh I’m sure little pockets of it will endure for generations. Particularly in cities.

But most are in a similar situation as the one in my hometown (pastored by a woman I attended school with).

Virtually 100% of the budget goes to keeping the lights on, the rain out and the pastor put. And it is provided by a handful of old doctors and lawyers very much in their twilight years with children and grandchildren that are openly irreligious and generally show-up only to please “pap-pap”.

But I fully agree that there are some in larger cities and maybe a few rural areas that are quite vibrant, despite the utter devastation their numbers have experienced nationally in just the last generation.


The articles on Rev. Lind say she increased her congregation from 500 to 1000. I suspect that given her activism and orientation, a lot of people who thought the same as her probably hooked up with her church, which is right downtown where all the young urban professionals live, and is in proximity to two colleges.


It seems that mega-churches are the new Protestantism.


Evangelicals, as a category.


I believe the Episcopal church generally accepts abortion. They say it shouldn’t be used for birth control but they think you can use it for other purposes.

Doctrine and practice is voted on by a body of clergy and layman.

They aren’t a fringe group but I think they will whither away. They are shrinking fast.


This isn’t an example of Sola Scriptura failing. This is an example of No Scriptura. You’re going to have to look somewhere else to criticize Sola Scriptura.

Those who are still adhering to Christian teachings should just leave for the many splinter Anglican denominations but leaving is hard and some hold false hopes they can restore Mainline Protestantism.


Looking at the picture, they all look so happy - like it is a celebration. Don’t they know?
What lost souls!


why isn’t it an example. do you know what they base their doctrine on if it isn’t the bible?


It’s because the Episcopal Church has been enthusiastically endorsing “progressive” political causes such as this one that many people at the more conservative end of the Episcopalian spectrum are moving away to other churches, particularly ACNA, the Anglican Church of North America. Link:


If this is true how extremely sad that they would even consider doing this.


A number of things.

  1. The Anglican tradition generally does not subscribe to sola scriptura, and by extension, neither does Methodism. Hooker is rather clear about that.
  2. Secondly, sola scriptura in the classical sense is a means of determining doctrine.
  3. Sola scriptura assumes that one is using scripture, of which there seems no evidence whatever in this case.


In this case, it is based on the progressive line in the sand; the defense of abortion at all costs.


Or the conservatives within the Episcopal Church have entered into the Catholic Church, like
myself. I believe there are numerous types of Anglican denominations too which means
more disunity. Benedict XVI allowed for the Ordinariate and the Anglican rite (I am not sure of the official name) to be formed for Anglicans to be able to enter the Catholic Church but have their own Divine Liturgy. They are definitely Catholic, but have an approved liturgy of their own.
I have never attended one of these Masses, but I understand they are beautiful.


Just curious–have any actual Episcopalians replied to this thread?


I was Episcopalian from 2 - 56 years of age.


Hmm…54 years…I wonder if that counts. . . .:wink:

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