Need Guys' perspectives, please


#1

CAF Men: Can you please help me out? I have a daughter who (despite my best efforts to educate her) continues to fall into sexual sin with boys. Outside of the practical in terms of monitoring her, etc. I really need her to have a change of heart before the behavior itself will change. Her dad is of little help. He's a good guy but ill equipped to handle this (who knows why I've literally given up on getting his help. This is stressful enough. I don't need marital problems, too). Going to a priest is out. She will talk to one in a Confessional but not face to face. I get it. She's 16. I wouldn't have done it, either. I've tried explaining how men might view a girl they think is sexually easy, how she may have to discuss past actions with a future spouse, all of it and she DOESN'T get it. She just thinks I'm an out of touch prude. And, honestly, It isn't helped by the fact many girls her age are no different or that her generation would rather watch "Jersey Shore" than EWTN. The fact I'm a woman myself doesn't make these arguments any more compelling, either. So, from a GUY'S perspective, can you please tell me something, anything that I can share with her that might help her think twice? She's a great kid in a lot of ways and if this were 1811, she would probably be making some man a fine wife right now. In 2011, I'm worried that her decisions now could really impact her future happiness with a man. Any advice or comments you have would be appreciated. Also, your ages, if you don't mind sharing, would be helpful. Thanks and God Bless.


#2

Tell her that with men, sexy and beautiful are not the same thing. Strippers are sexy. Wives are beautiful.

At times when I see a provocatively dressed woman, I will think she is sexy, and have the urge to sleep with her, although I'm mature enough now to ignore and flush out those thoughts whenever they come. I would never think of marrying the woman. The only reason a man would date a sexy woman would be to try to get into their pants. Some men are more patient than others, but that would be the ultimate goal: sleep with her and then forget about her as soon as she became boring.

The more anyone (male or female) becomes attached to sin of lust, whether by causing or doing, the harder it will be to mature to a level where one becomes 'beautiful.'

Would I date a woman who is not a virgin? Yes, but I would have my reservations. I'd need to know that she would respect my feeble soul enough by not dressing sexy, but rather beautiful. I'd need to know that she would stop me if I became lustful, and not give in too easily.

This reminds me of another point. Although us men rant about doing it all the time, the truth is most men love the chase. If you (the woman) give in too easily or quickly, we become bored quite easily, and will just as quickly leave you. The longer you make us wait for you (especially until marriage) the more we want you, long for you and love you. As a note, woman should usually wait until after men have surpassed the "I'm want you so bad I'm crazy about you" (also known as being whipped) stage prior to accepting the proposal.

But, to be honest, if my father told me something along these lines about women I'd blow him off. I assume the likewise for women. It may be best for your father (her grandfather) to convey these ideas, or something similar to them, if your husband is unwilling.

Best of luck, I'll pray for you and your daughter.


#3

It seems like you are saying everything right, but I don't have a daughter so I can't say for sure how they think. Regardless, just do your best to explain things properly, serve as an example, and teach her the best you can. In the end, she will make her decisions herself.
The best thing you can do is pray for her!


#4

You don’t necessarily need to get ‘religious’ or ‘Catholic’ on her, though I do believe this is the best approach - to tell her that she is a child of God, that she shouldn’t sin, etc. I guess that can be left up to you to bring in the Catholic elements, and there are resources out there like Jason Evert and his wife [by the way, in fact, I would make your daughter sit through a few of Jasons online videos at www.chastity.com — if she isn’t touched by them at all then I am stumped].

But having said that, I am sure you can reach out to her in what I believe are 2 good ways.

Firstly, tell her about herself. Yeah yeah, I mean all that mushy kinda stuff - she is beautiful, a fine young lady, etc. But there are deeper truths too. Tell her she has dignity to uphold as a woman and a daughter and a future wife. Ask her if she would like it if her own daughter were doing the things she does? Ask her what she’d think if her future husband had been promiscuous? Tell her that she deserves more for herself to protect her chastity. Selling yourself short doesn’t do anything for you, and the lower pleasures of sexual relationships really mean zilch in the greater scheme of things. Like all sinful pleasures, they are enjoyable because they have an element of goodness that has been corrupted. She is looking and searching for that goodness and has a foretaste of it, but it’s not the real thing and it’s actually a pretty poor substitute for the kind of real love she will have when married. Trouble is, if she continues down this path she might not ever get a chance to feel that love because her heart would be so murky and cluttered.

Secondly, I would speak to her about others - particularly men. Not only is it her duty to protect the chastity of others and make them become better people, I wonder how she feels about being reduced to a sexual playtoy for young adult men? You can tell her this from a guy who was considered ‘good’ when I was that age - even I said a lot of terrible things about girls I supposedly cared for and would call my friends. I mean, honestly, terrible things. And I heard a lot worse. Is there really value to be found in being a fool for a man who only wants to use you? Doubtful. She could get into some sticky situations too. I don’t know the details of your daughters activities - but the reality is that STD’s are out there and a lot of people have them. Pregnancy is also a reality for the sexually active.

I don’t know, I am not a parent, so I am not sure how all the above could work.

I guess… Just help her to understand that she will - absolutely - come to regret the things she’s doing. Spiritually, she is destroying her relationship with God and placing herself at risk. While she may be forgiven for her sins, I can speak from experience that the guilt and the feeling of dirtiness stays with you. She is also doing lasting emotional damage. The pain she will feel in the future will be enormous. And it will come.

The message is this: stop selling yourself short! You deserve better! Be the girl that isn’t easy! Be the girl that all the good guys want! Be the girl that is so eloquent and beautiful and chaste that you can’t help but be attracted. Again, speaking from experience, these girls really are the most beautiful. It might just be something that comes with age, but I sincerely mean it when I say that purity of the soul can shine through a woman and make her that much more beautiful.

Good luck + ask St. Josemaria to intercede for you and of course the Blessed Virgin. When I was struggling with chastity they really helped me.


#5

I think the problem may be that she does not value herself and more importantly, she does not value her body. She doesn't mind being used for the sexual gratification of another because she is content with the reward of her sexual gratification. If she had some idea of what she was worth, maybe it would change things.

My guess is that she also doesn't value a long term relationship. I can tell you that the boys she has been with are only interested in sex with her and their relationship with her is based completely on sex. They have no interest in her as a person, just as an object of sexual gratification. It is an easy test to prove. Tell your daughter to say she doesn't want to have sex for a month, the guy may be on board because he has confidence it won't actually be a month. If she were to actually hold out for a week or two with no signs of giving in, the guy would most likely leave for another, easier target. It is not a perfect test, but it is a good start. There is also the possibility your daughter really doesn't mind being used and if that is the case, there isn't much you can say except to try and prove her wrong. If she has no concept of self worth, it is a far tougher battle.

I would suggest getting some videos from Christopher West, maybe he can get through to her. She is a beautiful person worth more than the boy she is sleeping with is willing to offer. She is worth the sacrifice of Christ on the cross and any person worthy of her should be willing to offer the same. If they can't commit to a month, what makes her think they are even committed to her at all? I don't have statistics, but I would bet that guys who aren't willing to make a tough commitment are also prone to cheating on the girl they are with.

I would work on her self worth and see if she minds being used. She is probably little more than an interactive porn site to the boy she is with. Make the boy pay for the porn and he will find another site, make him work for the sex and he will leave her for someone who is easy.

God Bless.


#6

[quote="Irish_Girl_68, post:1, topic:251506"]
CAF Men: Can you please help me out? I have a daughter who (despite my best efforts to educate her) continues to fall into sexual sin with boys. Outside of the practical in terms of monitoring her, etc. I really need her to have a change of heart before the behavior itself will change. Her dad is of little help. He's a good guy but ill equipped to handle this (who knows why I've literally given up on getting his help. This is stressful enough. I don't need marital problems, too). Going to a priest is out. She will talk to one in a Confessional but not face to face. I get it. She's 16. I wouldn't have done it, either. I've tried explaining how men might view a girl they think is sexually easy, how she may have to discuss past actions with a future spouse, all of it and she DOESN'T get it. She just thinks I'm an out of touch prude. And, honestly, It isn't helped by the fact many girls her age are no different or that her generation would rather watch "Jersey Shore" than EWTN. The fact I'm a woman myself doesn't make these arguments any more compelling, either. So, from a GUY'S perspective, can you please tell me something, anything that I can share with her that might help her think twice? She's a great kid in a lot of ways and if this were 1811, she would probably be making some man a fine wife right now. In 2011, I'm worried that her decisions now could really impact her future happiness with a man. Any advice or comments you have would be appreciated. Also, your ages, if you don't mind sharing, would be helpful. Thanks and God Bless.

[/quote]

As a 16 year old guy myself, and trying to dissuade my friends out of the situation, I will warn you it will not be easy. my prayers are with you and myself. Honestly, all that stuff about diseases and tell her spouse mean nothing to her now. To her she uses condoms and is fine, and in her mind, if everyone is doing it, then it shouldn't be a problem with her future spouse


#7

Something I have told teenage girls, just to get the point across is; "guys want to date a "bad girl" but they want to marry a virgin."

Have you looked into any of the stuff on this site by Leah Darrow? (former contestant on America's Next Top Model, now working for Catholic Answers).


#8

Has she listened to "Romance without Regret" by Jason Evert? He spoke at our parish a few years ago and although I am an adult, I was trying to listen to remembering how I felt about relationships back in my teen years. I would have really appreciated the talk because he actually puts into words what I felt when I was dating and the boy wanted a little more. I know your daughter doesn't feel that way but the talk might change her mind.

I also just read a really interesting article by Anthony Esolen called "Nice Fornication" that is geared more towards those in their twenties who are dating, but it might get through to your daughter as well. It is a good article for those who, in their minds, separate premarital sex with a boyfriend from one night stands.


#9

First off you need to get your husband on board. Without his backing anything you do is pretty much doomed to failure. If asking him if he's ready to be a grandpa doesn't light a fire under his *** then nothing will. There's a reason men joke about easy women with daddy issues - its because it's true.

When I was your daughter's age I would have probably watched Jersey Shore instead of EWTN so watch it together and simply point out how screwed up the cast members lives are by the way they are living. How many of the girls on the show end up crying in each episode over what they've done or allowed to be done to them? Show here how the men on the show are scamming the girls by feigning interest while they only want one thing, and how they are "done" with them once they get it.


#10

Have you asked her why she does these things? I've noticed that girls sometimes things sex will have other effects - the boy will fall in love, the boy won't leave her, etc. It might do well to dispell any false ideas she has about how guys view sex - because to them, sadly, it is anything but a commitment.

If it is any comfort to you or a point to her, there is at least one couple out there saving themselves for marriage (even french kissing! :p), myself (17) and my girlfriend (18). We are definitely not the norm, but neither was Jesus or any of the saints.

But the one thing you certainly must do, is pray.


#11

talk to her about stds and also talk to her about how God wants us to not have sex until marriage and also like others have said, they have to explain that too their future spouse and also she could develop a rep too at her school shoot i understand what she's going through I'm 17 and its hard to resist sometimes


#12

Thank you all for your insights so far. I greatly appreciate your time and wisdom. I didn't really detail my daughter's situation as well as I should have. Perhaps it's my own embarrassment showing through. To summarize: She's had sex with three different partners...all of whom she called her boyfriend at the time. She does not have my permission to date but has learned to sneak around. As such, I've always been a day late and a dollar short with catching her. As weird as this sounds, I think part of the problem is these guys. (save for the first one who was an abusive loser for reasons totally unrelated to his sex life) ARE fairly decent people. They are kind to her and DON'T drop her after the fact. The most recent young man actually regretted having sex with her at one point and said "I wish you would have stopped me." She and this particular guy do not date but they have kept in touch and have done so almost daily for the last year. I know they aren't being intimate as they don't see each other. But, my point is, she hasn't really suffered the humiliation of being dumped after a guy had sex with her. I certainly don't wish it on her but I think an experience like that might have curtailed some of this behavior, you know?


#13

I know you kind of ruled this one out, but I think this is really where a father figure and two-parent-team-up can come in handy.


#14

I'm not a guy, but I'm very curious about something.

Any indication that the "abusive loser" coerced her in any way? Maybe she feels powerless to say "no".


#15

try punishing her btw


#16

[quote="CountrySteve, post:15, topic:251506"]
try punishing her btw

[/quote]

Oh, I definitely have no problem doing that. She's spent nearly all summer stuck at home.


#17

[quote="Mary_Gail_36, post:14, topic:251506"]
I'm not a guy, but I'm very curious about something.

Any indication that the "abusive loser" coerced her in any way? Maybe she feels powerless to say "no".

[/quote]

Mentally, I know she was pressured. Physically, I do not believe so. She knows this behavior is wrong. I just think she is aware of what the culture allows and then justifies it that way.


#18

Unfortunately your daughter is living in a culture that say's it's ok and normal to engage in pre marital sex with someone who you love or believe you love. Mixed with her hormone's and body changing she may find it difficult to restrain in this sex obsessed culture where it is everywhere and she also may believe she can reach the completeness that married couple's share through this intimacy. I used to believe this at her age aswell unfortunately also down to lack of understanding on the teaching on this. Unless she understand's and accept's Church teaching on this then she will continue to have her own view's, she must understand the why's behind it. Accepting the Church's view on pre marital sex is a hard cross to carry especially for the youth so it must be something they do willfully otherwise they won't do it at all. It may be harder for your daughter because it doesn't seem like she is being treated like c*ap by these lad's and it doesn't seem as if she is being pressurized into doing something she doesn't want to do, does your daughter practice the faith other than go to mass let's say, does she hold many fundamental belief's. She need's to have a more personal relationship with Christ i believe which is also key


#19

Oooo, another article, I can't believe I forgot it as it is probably the most appropriate, is called "Resenting Chastity" by Edward Sui.

It sounds as though somehow she got the message that premarital sex is okay and did not get the message "it's okay not to".

As far as being dumped after sex, I don't even think that needs to happen to have a girl feel used. All that needs to happen is a breakup, and she has had several of those.


#20

I'm not sure how helpful this will be and I'm afraid that due to my possible unawareness of certain fragile parts of a female psyche, this might even do some harm (that a more mature woman would be well equipped to avoid but a young and sensitive one not so much) but I trust you'll spot all such sensitive spots. :)

So, just a moment ago, wile visiting LinkedIn (a strictly professional cousin of Facebook), I saw a very impressive facial photograph of a young professional. Impressive to the point, I had to zoom it. And who was it? A familiar young woman, several years my junior, whom I met in the halls of justice when she was a law student doing a reporting internship with a lawyer magazine and I was a law grad litigating bar admission like there was no tomorrow. At that time, she would dress beach-style with generous display of skin. The difference! With a dignified face expression and benevolent smile, and buttoned above her collar bones, she looked positively majestic. (Worth noting, she seems to be dealing with life science law, in addition to almost two years of pro bono advice, which lends her so much more credit than whatever party-related "science" tends to be popular along fresh law grads.) Which, for the avoidance of any doubt, ranks above stunning.

I'll try to write morrow tomorrow or rather later today. I must be going now since it's 2 a.m. and work's still unfinished.


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