Need help w/ this question asap!


#1

need help here fast… how many ex cathedra statements have ever been made, and what were they? i thought there were only two, but can you give me a source if possible? thanks.


#2

There are somewhat varying thoughts on a definitive list of ex cathedra statments. As far as I know, there are at least two, Immaculate Conception and Assumption. To that, we also add all the proclamations of canonized saints. Theologians have to examine closely those papal declarations made before the dogma was defined with Vatican I in 1870 to see if they were indeed ex cathedra. This has been my learning and I can’t say that it is absolute truth, but the best I currently know. Hope it helps you out.

Dobbs


#3

[quote=Dobbs]There are somewhat varying thoughts on a definitive list of ex cathedra statments. As far as I know, there are at least two, Immaculate Conception and Assumption. To that, we also add all the proclamations of canonized saints. Theologians have to examine closely those papal declarations made before the dogma was defined with Vatican I in 1870 to see if they were indeed ex cathedra. This has been my learning and I can’t say that it is absolute truth, but the best I currently know. Hope it helps you out.

Dobbs
[/quote]

I would also add Ordinatio Sacerdotalis of John Paul II. He basically defines that women can not be ordained as preists.


#4

[quote=jimmy]I would also add Ordinatio Sacerdotalis of John Paul II. He basically defines that women can not be ordained as preists.
[/quote]

This was ALMOST an ex Cahtedra teaching, but not quite. JP2 *never *taught ex Cathedra. In the example you cite, Jimmy, JP2 defered to the Ordinary Magesterium for a definitive definition.

See my previous discussion for elaboration.

I agree that the count is two.


#5

This sounds pretty much like an infallible statement.

Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.


#6

The Church isn’t infallible only when a pope speaks ex cathedra. John Paul II’s statement that women cannot be ordained is indeed infallible, but not by virtue of the papal infallibility.

– Mark L. Chance.


#7

[quote=jimmy]This sounds pretty much like an infallible statement.
[/quote]

It is a non-infallible confirmation of an infallible truth.


#8

I don’t see how it can be considered infallible unless the statement of the pope is infallible. What am I missing here?


#9

[quote=jimmy]I don’t see how it can be considered infallible unless the statement of the pope is infallible. What am I missing here?
[/quote]

I think what you are missing is that dissenters will continue to dissent no matter what. You seem to be under the impression that if the Pope were just to issue a new ex cathedra statement, then all the dissent would suddenly stop. But this isn’t the case; the dissenters would just say that this new statement wasn’t really ex cathedra. The Pope could then issue a second new ex cathedra statement saying that the first new statement was indeed ex cathedra. But the dissenters would just say that the second statement wasn’t really ex cathedra either, so that it didn’t really infallibly confirm the first new statement. And so on. All the while they would use their dissent as an indication that the sensus fidelium hasn’t spoken.

As a result of Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, all dissent concerning the issue of women priests is treated by canon law with the punishment reserved for dissent against infallible teachings. What more does the Church really need?


#10

From Humani Generis:

  1. Nor must it be thought that what is expounded in Encyclical Letters does not of itself demand consent, since in writing such Letters the Popes do not exercise the supreme power of their Teaching Authority. For these matters are taught with the ordinary teaching authority, of which it is true to say: “He who heareth you, heareth me”; and generally what is expounded and inculcated in Encyclical Letters already for other reasons appertains to Catholic doctrine. But if the Supreme Pontiffs in their official documents purposely pass judgment on a matter up to that time under dispute, it is obvious that that matter, according to the mind and will of the Pontiffs, cannot be any longer considered a question open to discussion among theologians.

Thus, even if the teaching about women priests weren’t infallible, there still should be no more discussion of the matter. But for dissenters, they can claim that Pope Pius XII’s Humani Generis wasn’t infallible, so it could be wrong about the authority of the non-infallible magisterium.


#11

see, I’m confused a bit here too…how can one ever be sure that a statement is ex-cathedra or not? This may be a result of my limited understanding, but it seems kind of vague to me.


#12

[quote=Catholic Tom]see, I’m confused a bit here too…how can one ever be sure that a statement is ex-cathedra or not? This may be a result of my limited understanding, but it seems kind of vague to me.
[/quote]

The Church must SAY its an infallable statement. That’s what (then) Cardinal Ratzinger did for Ordinatio Sacerdotalis


closed #13

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